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  1. #1
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    Default This safe this is confusing me

    Okay so I have an old Rifle safe, is compliant in terms of metal thickness, lock etc. Has no serial number, and has only 2 bolt holes on the rear. I am aware/have been told that the DFO requires 4 bolts.

    So as it stands now the rifle safe is bolted correctly with two bolts on the rear of the safe, the safe sits in a corner of my bedroom cupboard and this is where I need sound information so to make the safe safer for my FA (still to come) as well as being compliant for when doing the licence application.

    Is it mandatory to do 2 bolts to the floor or will it be acceptable to have 2 bolts on the back and 2 on the left hand side where the safe meets the corner wall? The cupboard is raised from the floor and I'll have to remove the base of the cupboard in order to bolt to floor and herein lies my issue. Also Then re drill the rear holes as the safe drops.

    What say ye o forum members?

  2. #2

    Default Re: This safe this is confusing me

    As I understand it, as long as it is cross bolted to two different walls, it is adequate. But cross bolting it three ways is even better. Personally, I do not think two bolts in the back is sufficient for a full-size rifle safe. I would fit four bolts into each wall. Of course, the way the bolts are fitted is also critical as is the material that the wall is made of. Some of the older clay brick walls really mean very little; in fact some of them crack and break up when you tighten the bolt. Cement brick walls usually tend to be more sturdy. The thing about bolting it into the foundation of the building is that that is normally poured concrete and is very strong. Usually… Not always.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit: occidentis telum est.

    Seneca (4 BC - 65 AD)

  3. #3
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    Default Re: This safe this is confusing me

    Quote Originally Posted by StuartDB View Post
    Okay so I have an old Rifle safe, is compliant in terms of metal thickness, lock etc. Has no serial number, and has only 2 bolt holes on the rear. I am aware/have been told that the DFO requires 4 bolts.

    So as it stands now the rifle safe is bolted correctly with two bolts on the rear of the safe, the safe sits in a corner of my bedroom cupboard and this is where I need sound information so to make the safe safer for my FA (still to come) as well as being compliant for when doing the licence application.

    Is it mandatory to do 2 bolts to the floor or will it be acceptable to have 2 bolts on the back and 2 on the left hand side where the safe meets the corner wall? The cupboard is raised from the floor and I'll have to remove the base of the cupboard in order to bolt to floor and herein lies my issue. Also Then re drill the rear holes as the safe drops.

    What say ye o forum members?

    The more the better.. If the BG wants to take the safe they will. All you are doing is to 1) make them take longer in removing it and 2) they'll make more noise when doing so.

    My safe is anchored to the wall with 16mm thick rods that has a plate attached to the ends inside the wall, they will have to remove a big piece of the wall to take the safe, or break the safe open to get to the contents.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: This safe this is confusing me

    Easiest to put another 2 on the other wall.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: This safe this is confusing me

    Or floor. Check if there are holes in the floor
    Don’t take life too seriously, no one gets out alive.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: This safe this is confusing me

    I believe the requirement is MIN 4 bolts of M10 size, but more is betterer. and if it CAN be bolted to floor, or another wall, even more bettererer... but 4 min is the requirement as far as I am aware...

  7. #7
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    Default Re: This safe this is confusing me

    Bolting a raised safe to the floor is possible, if you can make a spacer(s) that bridge the gap between safe and floor. How such a spacer will look, depends on the actual access to the space. This will enable you to bolt it to 3 surfaces, which makes it very hard to break out. If normal Rawl bolts are not long enough, some threaded rod sections and chemical anchors should be able to bridge any gap.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: This safe this is confusing me

    Chapter 10 section 86 of the FCA

    (12) A lock-away safe, apparatus, device and instrument for safe custody of a firearm or ammunition, must to the satisfaction of the Registrar comply with the following requirements -
    (a) be manufactured from steel of at least 2 mm thick;
    (b) be capable of enclosing or covering the firearm concerned wholly;
    (c) have an effective integral locking mechanism;
    (d) have a hinge mechanism for the cover or lid thereof which shall ensure that when the locking pin thereof is removed, the cover or lid shall not be capable of being opened or removed;
    (e) have a facility with the aid or use of which the lock-away safe, apparatus, device or instrument may be securely affixed to another structure such as a wall or a floor, or the body of a vehicle; and
    (f) in the case of a lock-away safe used as contemplated in subregulation (5) if such safe can only be locked or opened with two or more keys that have to be used jointly.


    Accordingly to SABS 953-1 - Storage of firearms and ammunition Part 1:Safes (953-2 is for strong rooms)
    The Following types safes

    A1= M10 x 80mm Bolts, At least 3 in back/side wall or both and 1 in floor plate. (Collector/private individuals store up to 20 firearms)
    A2= Comply to Category 2 of SABS 751

    B1=Wall thickness of roof, floor, side at least 2.80mm and door at least 5.75mm. M10 at least 2 in the back wall or side wall (or both) (up to 4 handguns and their
    B2 =M10 at least 2 in the back wall or side wall (or both) and in two in floor plate. (Up to 10 firearms and ammo)
    B3 =Arrangement for bolting safe to body or floor of vehicle. (Temp storage vehicles or caravans)

  9. #9
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Botha View Post
    Chapter 10 section 86 of the FCA

    (12) A lock-away safe, apparatus, device and instrument for safe custody of a firearm or ammunition, must to the satisfaction of the Registrar comply with the following requirements -
    (a) be manufactured from steel of at least 2 mm thick;
    (b) be capable of enclosing or covering the firearm concerned wholly;
    (c) have an effective integral locking mechanism;
    (d) have a hinge mechanism for the cover or lid thereof which shall ensure that when the locking pin thereof is removed, the cover or lid shall not be capable of being opened or removed;
    (e) have a facility with the aid or use of which the lock-away safe, apparatus, device or instrument may be securely affixed to another structure such as a wall or a floor, or the body of a vehicle; and
    (f) in the case of a lock-away safe used as contemplated in subregulation (5) if such safe can only be locked or opened with two or more keys that have to be used jointly.


    Accordingly to SABS 953-1 - Storage of firearms and ammunition Part 1:Safes (953-2 is for strong rooms)
    The Following types safes

    A1= M10 x 80mm Bolts, At least 3 in back/side wall or both and 1 in floor plate. (Collector/private individuals store up to 20 firearms)
    A2= Comply to Category 2 of SABS 751

    B1=Wall thickness of roof, floor, side at least 2.80mm and door at least 5.75mm. M10 at least 2 in the back wall or side wall (or both) (up to 4 handguns and their
    B2 =M10 at least 2 in the back wall or side wall (or both) and in two in floor plate. (Up to 10 firearms and ammo)
    B3 =Arrangement for bolting safe to body or floor of vehicle. (Temp storage vehicles or caravans)

    Does this work?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #10
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    Default Re: This safe this is confusing me

    That looks solid, but my preferred method is going through the wall and putting bolts / washers on the other end + welding them.

    That way they would have to remove the part of the wall with them, All your trying to do is make it harder for them, This however is for a honest thief the real thief's will take it regardless what you do.
    Regards

    Tony G

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