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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Advantage of +P+ ammo

    Quote Originally Posted by M43 View Post
    More powerful (hotter) FMJ will over penetrate more, wear out guns faster and recoil more. Wounding will be the same puncture wound as for regular FMJ. = No advantage.

    More powerful (hotter) HP's will mostly expand more, they will also recoil more and they may expand too much, unless the manufacturer designed them to expand in a controlled way while staying together. And if they expand too much and lose fragments you may not have ideal depth penetration. = May have advantages but only if you use the premium stuff from the good companies...
    That leads to an interesting question: Would +P+ be better in defending yourself against an armed assailant wearing a kevlar vest? Has that ever been a problem in South Africa?

  2. #12

    Default Re: Advantage of +P+ ammo

    Quote Originally Posted by Johann du Toit View Post
    That leads to an interesting question: Would +P+ be better in defending yourself against an armed assailant wearing a kevlar vest? Has that ever been a problem in South Africa?
    lol I highly doubt our criminals bother with such, but with their links to the SAPS it would hardly surprise me. but even if you where to shoot the Kevlar wearing super criminal, +P+ is just a fast 9MM, its still not considered armour piercing. if it was armour piercing then it would be illegal like all armour piercing projectiles.

    or am I wrong?

  3. #13

    Default Re: Advantage of +P+ ammo

    Quote Originally Posted by M43 View Post
    More powerful (hotter) FMJ will over penetrate more, wear out guns faster and recoil more. Wounding will be the same puncture wound as for regular FMJ. = No advantage.

    More powerful (hotter) HP's will mostly expand more, they will also recoil more and they may expand too much, unless the manufacturer designed them to expand in a controlled way while staying together. And if they expand too much and lose fragments you may not have ideal depth penetration. = May have advantages but only if you use the premium stuff from the good companies...
    hi M43, something just crossed my mind.

    the Americans consider the 9mm a weak projectile but consider the .357 magnum a "man stopper" both are exactly the same diameter, so both should create exactly the same would channel. why is that? or is it all just myth and legend, just like with the .45 acp.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Advantage of +P+ ammo

    Quote Originally Posted by john marston View Post
    hi M43, something just crossed my mind.

    the Americans consider the 9mm a weak projectile but consider the .357 magnum a "man stopper" both are exactly the same diameter, so both should create exactly the same would channel. why is that? or is it all just myth and legend, just like with the .45 acp.
    Which "Americans"?

  5. #15
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by john marston View Post
    hi M43, something just crossed my mind. the Americans consider the 9mm a weak projectile but consider the .357 magnum a "man stopper" both are exactly the same diameter, so both should create exactly the same would channel. why is that? or is it all just myth and legend, just like with the .45 acp.
    Back when revolvers in 38Spl with LRN bullets were standard issue ...And the 45ACP made its name when 38/200 BP was standard issue.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Advantage of +P+ ammo

    And back when the .357 Magnum was pushing 1600fps expanding bullet compared to 1200fps copper jacket...

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by john marston View Post
    hi M43, something just crossed my mind.

    the Americans consider the 9mm a weak projectile but consider the .357 magnum a "man stopper" both are exactly the same diameter, so both should create exactly the same would channel. why is that? or is it all just myth and legend, just like with the .45 acp.
    Times have changed since then

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by madhatter View Post
    According to Massad Ayoob 147gn 9mmP Rangers are comparable to high end .38 Special, 127gn +P+ to lightish .357 velocities and performance.
    That thinking is long outdated

  9. #19
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by john marston View Post
    if it was armour piercing then it would be illegal like all armour piercing projectiles.

    or am I wrong?
    You are wrong. Or pretty much every 7.62x39 steelcore milsurp round currently being sold all over the country is illegal. Which do you think is more likely?
    There are no stupid questions ........ just stupid people

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Advantage of +P+ ammo

    Quote Originally Posted by Quicksilver_WP View Post
    You are wrong. Or pretty much every 7.62x39 steelcore milsurp round currently being sold all over the country is illegal. Which do you think is more likely?
    Are level III vests proof against THVs and the like?

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