Forgive me for i have sinned(bought 30-06, have 308)

[Messor]

Messor..you are being ambiguous by saying the 308 does things better in the bushveld than the 3006 does. 'Better' is a word that means nothing on its own.

Exactly

On it's own it means nothing.

Are you up for a bout in trying to debate with me on this one?

Warning, I'll not take any prisoners.

[CorditeCrazy]

Wait, wait, wait. I'm just topping up my drink and getting some popcorn. This is gonna be fun.

[shooty]

Well as the old timers at our club use to say.
A 30-06 you have to work at to shoot accurate as with any other caliber.
A 308 on the other hand. You have to really try hard too get crappy accuracy out of it.
As any monkey can shoot a 308 accurate.

[B-west]

Well as the old timers at our club use to say.
A 30-06 you have to work at to shoot accurate as with any other caliber.
A 308 on the other hand. You have to really try hard too get crappy accuracy out of it.
As any monkey can shoot a 308 accurate.

Need some burn shield for that?

[Peter Wells]

OP
Yes, you have sinned. Hopefully you will again. Get over it!

[pre 64]

Messor...damn.

I am always up for a challenge.However....seeing that the 3006 is superior in every way to the 308 and as such,it would make it far too easy for myself to win.
Therefore,in the spirit of fair play,lets make this interesting.....and it will also answer the OP's original question.

YOU go first and tell me why the 3006 is better than the 308.
If you can sing the praises of the 3006 in a more logical manner than i can of the 308,i will declare you the master of debate.

[Dale SH]

Please dont tell me that you can't shoot a 30-06 accurately because it is not a short action.
Also please dont raise the point that recoil is too heavy on a 30-06. Recoil is a function of stock fit and other factors as well.

If that is what you where going to debate.

[jdvisagie]

There you go H.MINNAAR, you're biggest sin is (potentially) starting another 308 vs 30-06 quarrel.. You should know you can't mention both those calibers in a single thread. Ai jai jai...

Settle down folks - it's like blonds, brunettes and redheads. They all have their place and we all have our preferences :)

Personally I think they're a bit close for a 2 rifle battery, will like to add a true long range caliber to the mix rather.

[Andrew Leigh]

Annoying Messor is of course a valid reason in itself to keep the 30-06

^^^^This .

[Messor]

Amateurs, ok.

The statement was that a 308 does exactly what a 30-06 does in the bushveld, just better.
For this statement to be validated all considerations must be taken into account.

Let start with a story, for this story I’ll use 2 characters, we’ll sommer call them pirate and dale in order not to use real names.

Pirate and Dale is sitting around the fire, each of them just bought a new car.
The model pirate bought is more comfortable, it is more economical, but it’s got a smaller engine.
Dale keeps hammering on the fact that his car is faster, can do 250km/h, very nice. Pirate reminds him that you cannot drive that fast on any of our roads there are speed limits to adhere to. So why would you chose a vehicle that is less comfortable, less economic, just because it’s got a feature you cannot use? Dale doesn’t care, man logic around a fire dictates that bigger is better, finish and klaar.

Back to our little debate, let’s start with numbers.
The average shot in the bushveld is less than 100m in the thickets, of course you get clearings here and there but because of the vegetation stalking is rather simple so it’s easy to get close to animals, I know, I do it a lot.
Now let’s start with the bullets used, there is no use in naming every single bullet in existence, why, well people just don’t use it that way. I can tell you that 99.something percent of all bullets shot for hunting in a 308 and 30-06 is between 150 and 180gr. There is no debating that, it just is, ask any ammo manufacturer in the world.

Impact velocity, almost all terminal ballistic talks shows the nominal impact speed of between 2400 and 2200ft/s. Why, well this is the speed at which bullets mushrooms, penetrates well without coming apart, but more importantly it doesn’t cause meat damage. Now immediately some oke jumps up and say, wait a minute, I use monolithics, and I shoot them fast. Now before you get all excited, forget not even with monolithics the faster you shoot something the more meat damage there will be. It’s not hearsay it’s plain physics. Since trajectory is of no concern at all then all we have to focus on is impact velocity, that governs everything.
Now, straight out of the bat, prey tell me which factory ammo in a 30-06 will fall within that criteria, huh? PMP from South Africa comes mighty close in 180gr, but just because they shoot it at 308 spec. And I think some overseas manufacturer creates what they call a reduced recoil load, same thing.
Yup, they make the 30-06 better by making it a 308, sorry folks, all those millions of animals shot with a 180gr pmp was shot at 308 spec.

Obviously people will say well I don’t buy factory ammo, I reload.
Cool, prey tell how?
Sure you can load your 30-06 at 2500ft/s, the speed required for nominal impact velocity, but you’ll run severely under pressure, with poor gas seal and gasses blowing back past the case. The 308 doesn’t suffer from this, you load it to 2500ft/s with a 180gr bullet and it sits smack bang on 50k psi.

Remember, you CAN run your loads hotter, that doesn’t make it better, that makes it worse. From empirical testing we KNOW for a fact speed doesn’t aid penetration in expanding bullets, not even mono’s, it inhibits it. That alone guarantees that any 308 will basically out penetrate a 30-06, doesn’t matter that the 30-06 is a bigger cartridge. You can tell me that the shock from speed causes death, but that is not a measurable data point, all we have to go on is primary wound path through the vitals.

So where are we now?
For bushveld use, if you are using industry standard ballistics :

The 308 is more economical, it uses less powder.
The 308 causes less meat damage.
The 308 is more comfortable, read less recoil.
The 308 penetrates deeper than the larger 30-06 with the same bullets.
VS
The 30-06 that shoots the same bullet faster.
That’s it.
Nothing more.
Really.
And since trajectory is irrelevant, even that is a con, not a pro.
The 308 beats it literally in everything else.

For bushveld use, if you download your 30-06, cool, you have sense, you made it into a 308.

So, if you are a bushveld hunter, and you want to buy either of these calibers, just get the 308, it’s the logical choice, nothing more to add, nothing more to see.

Now some smart oke will say ah, you mentioned the 30-06 shoots the bullet faster, so it’s a better plains caliber!
Yup, with the same bullets it’s will be, but then why on earth will you want to buy a 30-06 as a plains caliber when there are much better options for that specific task out there? Even worse with the same bullet compare the trajectory between a 308 and 30-06 out to 250m, for that extra recoil you gain precious little.

Now some smart oke will say ah, but the 30-06 is a more complete 1 gun rifle?
Sure, limit yourself if you feel that way, smart people will just buy rifles for specific tasks and not limit themselves.

Now, some oke will remind me of my little story, 1L Brandy, 2L Coke and a 3L Ford.
No ways a 308 can be better than a 30-06, because bigger my chyna.
And that is your average SA oke.

Smart people will make this a sticky and spare future generations, but I seriously doubt that will happen. Nor do I really care, bring it on, I like sweeping the floor with people.