Which semi to get

[kingy]

I'm also fat if that helps.

So am I and it cost lots to get this body

[shooty]

So in a nutshell.

1 Person has several years knowledge and experience in shooting and actively competes.

New person on block gives comment from post on youtube. And the comment is about something that is not shown or addressed in the video.

Person with experience addresses the shortcomings or lack of showing anything in the video. And just that.

New person gets offended and does not go after the facts anymore but makes a personal assault.

Is it only me seeing something wrong here.

If you feel your facts are still valid. Stay on the facts. Dont go after the person who questioned your facts, or said its wrong. If you do that you loose respect. If you admit your facts were wrong or even get to proof your facts are valid. You will actually gain respect.

Heck, I have given several opinions before and got pointed out by Big T or Skaaphaas(and not only them) they think its wrong. Sometimes I am, and sometimes I still dont think so. But it would be totally unacceptable to attack or insult them personally about it.

[WCC]

Question: Would this mean that hunting with AR's in any caliber is then not allowed. As they are semi and hold more then 2 rounds in magazine. Unless you get permission.

Just asking. As I know of 2 shooters at our club who have motivated AR's for Hunting and received licenses.

It's not an absolute restriction, but a very limited one i.e. permit wise or by proclamation suspension specific to a province and species. The hunting proclamations for certain provinces have suspended the semi-auto restriction iro certain species. For example, you may hunt bushpig with a semi-auto (no mag restriction) in the Eastern Cape and Northern Cape.

SA Wingshooters have actively campaigned (incl formal presentations to the DEA/Wildlife forum in 2015) the benefits of allowing semi-auto shotguns for wingshooting. Semi-auto shotguns offer the wingshooter a number of benefits, including the use of a 3rd shot if the 2nd shot on a double wounded the bird, as well as durability considerations under extreme weather conditions, to name but a few.
The last I've heard was that all the provinces took note of these submissions and would be taking them into account during the next review of the hunting legislation and proclamations. When that will be I do not know.

Re the 'magazine restriction' argument: Some of the provincial hunting proclamations refer to section 29 of Ordinance 19 of 1974, whereby certain hunting methods are restricted without a permit. The one in question is s29(h) which reads “by means of a fire-arm which discharges more than two shots without being manually reloaded”. It stands to reason that if a shotgun does not discharge more than two shots without being manually reloaded, it does not satisfy the restriction of s29(h) and is therefore not prohibited iro the Ordinance (and associated provincial proclamations) for the hunting of birds - typically this restriction is offered by a number of semi-automatic shotgun manufacturers (Beretta is an example) whereby shotguns have a factory supplied physical magazine restriction, thereby allowing hunters to use these shotguns where their hunting legislation restricts the round discharge limit. Of course, the question is whether this will be interpreted the same way by a presiding officer should charges be brought against you.

[CoffeeBean]

I only saw this added text now, if I was contradictory, let me clear it up.

I am saying that under the Western Cape legislation, a semi automatic firearm that holds 2 rounds in the magazine is capable of firing more that 2 rounds before one has to manually reload it, thus making it a "fire-arm which discharges more than two shots without being manually reloaded", thus it falls under "Prohibited ways of hunting" which state that "No person shall unless he or she is the holder of a permit authorising him or her to do so, hunt any wild animal" with it, meaning that in order for you to do the safe thing, in your mind and not carry your shotgun one-up, with the safety engaged, but still with 2 shells in the magazine, and stay within the law while hunting, you will require a permit that authorise its use when hunting any wild animal, it definitely includes wingshooting, but I now suspect that this may also apply to you hunting other wild animals likeporcupine as well, but until I have a look at all their schedules, I'll not commit myself to this.
I concede that there is no need for a gunsmith report as to the modification to only accept one round in the magazine, but I wonder how you will prove that the gun has been modified as such, in case an official challenge you to the fact that you are hunting with what appears to be a prohibited firearm, as per section 29.

I hope that this is now not contradictory in your eyes. And let me reiterate, I do not agree with this legislation, a 3 round restriction, i.e. 2 in the mag and 1 in the chamber, like the use is for hunting migratory birds in the US, would make a lot more sense to me, but it is the law and until it is changes it is what we have to follow if we want to hunt legally.

I'll paste a couple of extracts from other legislation talking to the same point:

Freestate (I unfortunately do not have a soft copy of the English):
Jag met sekere wapens verbied
8 Behalwe kragtens ‘n permit wat deur die Administrateur uitgereik kan word, mag niemand wild
deur middel van ‘n –
(a) wapen wat meer as twee skote agtereenvolgend kan afvuur en wat, nadat dit afgevuur is,
vanself weer laai en afvuur slegs deur die sneller te trek of deur dit in die afgevuurde posisie te
hou:

But it basically says that hunting game with a firearm that is capable of discharging more than 2 shots without being manually reloaded is prohibited, unless you have a permit that authorises it's use.

Western Cape:
Prohibited ways of hunting
29. No person shall unless he or she is the holder of a permit authorising him or her
to do so, hunt any wild animal—
...
(h) by means of a fire-arm which discharges more than two shots without being
manually reloaded;


Northern Cape, Eastern Cape and KZN is basically the same as WC, but I do not have a soft copies.

The above provinces allows for the hunting of game with a semi-auto if the firearm is incapable of firing more that 2 shots without manually being reloaded, without a permit authorising it's use. So a semi-auto that allows only one round in it's magazine is not a prohibited weapon and can thus be used to hunt game or wild animals, without a permit.

The below provinces prohibits the use of a semi-auto to hunt game or wild animals completely, unless the user is in possession of a permit that authorises it's use.
Gauteng:
21 Hunting of game with certain weapons
(1) Subject to the provisions of this Ordinance, no person shall hunt game with-
(a) a weapon which, after it has been discharged automatically reloads and
fires when the trigger thereof is pulled or held in a discharged position;

Northwest:
Hunting of game with certain weapons
21. (1) Subject to the provisions of this Ordinance, no person
shall hunt game with-
(a) a weapon which, after it has been discharged
automatically reloads and fires when the trigger thereof is pulled or held in a
discharged position;

Mpumalanga:
11. Hunting of game with certain weapons
(1) Subject to the provisions of this Act, no person shall hunt game with-
(a) a weapon which can, after it has been discharged, automatically reload and fire
when the trigger thereof is pulled or held in a discharged position;

Limpopo:
Prohibited acts relating to ways of hunting or catching wild or alien animals 38. (1) No person may without a permit –
(a) hunt specially protected wild animals, protected wild animals, game or non-indigenous wild animals with – (i) a fire-arm which after it has been discharged, automatically reloads and fires when the trigger is pulled or held in a discharged position;

All good!


To the OP sorry for the Hi-jack!

[Bowhunter]

All good!


To the OP sorry for the Hi-jack!

Your hijack was a pleasant change from the dick measuring contest we saw here earlier.

[pre 64]

Which one? The one you started with Proudprado?

[johannvdg]

It's not an absolute restriction, but a very limited one i.e. permit wise or by proclamation suspension specific to a province and species. The hunting proclamations for certain provinces have suspended the semi-auto restriction iro certain species. For example, you may hunt bushpig with a semi-auto (no mag restriction) in the Eastern Cape and Northern Cape.

SA Wingshooters have actively campaigned (incl formal presentations to the DEA/Wildlife forum in 2015) the benefits of allowing semi-auto shotguns for wingshooting. Semi-auto shotguns offer the wingshooter a number of benefits, including the use of a 3rd shot if the 2nd shot on a double wounded the bird, as well as durability considerations under extreme weather conditions, to name but a few.
The last I've heard was that all the provinces took note of these submissions and would be taking them into account during the next review of the hunting legislation and proclamations. When that will be I do not know.

Re the 'magazine restriction' argument: Some of the provincial hunting proclamations refer to section 29 of Ordinance 19 of 1974, whereby certain hunting methods are restricted without a permit. The one in question is s29(h) which reads “by means of a fire-arm which discharges more than two shots without being manually reloaded”. It stands to reason that if a shotgun does not discharge more than two shots without being manually reloaded, it does not satisfy the restriction of s29(h) and is therefore not prohibited iro the Ordinance (and associated provincial proclamations) for the hunting of birds - typically this restriction is offered by a number of semi-automatic shotgun manufacturers (Beretta is an example) whereby shotguns have a factory supplied physical magazine restriction, thereby allowing hunters to use these shotguns where their hunting legislation restricts the round discharge limit. Of course, the question is whether this will be interpreted the same way by a presiding officer should charges be brought against you.

WCC, you are right, there are some species that fall outside of the ambit, but for wingshooting as a only shotgun, you will either have to limit yourself to the provinces that allow the use through the 2 shot restriction, if your shotgun qualifies obviously, or you will have to get a permit that authorise you to use a restricted or prohibited firearm. This is something that very few gun shops advise prospective owners of, for obvious reasons. In today's climate, where any transgressions of the laws, with a firearm, has serious implications, I believe that it is an important bit of information, that will influence a new buyers decision. On a personal note, I have a lovely Beretta A300, that has become a safe queen because I will not hunt with it without said permit, and the provinces I mostly wingshoot in requires the permit, as they do not have the capacity clause. Limpopo used to issue the permit for the season, they have now changed and they only issue it for 30 days, adding even more admin.

The 1st time legislative changes to allow for the controlled use of semi-auto firearms for hunting was introduces, was in 2008, some provinces were happy to look at it, but others was dead set against it. Some of the provinces have gone through their respective law review processes and the status quo remains, KZN is in the process. I support Andre's submitting of these issues again as it is important to keep on chipping away at illogical legislation and we are all in it for the long hall, but I do not share his enthusiasm about imminent change, and let me say it again as long as it is the law of the land, it is our duty as responsible hunters and firearm owners to abide by it.

"It stands to reason that if a shotgun does not discharge more than two shots without being manually reloaded, it does not satisfy the restriction of s29(h) and is therefore not prohibited iro the Ordinance (and associated provincial proclamations) for the hunting of birds" If you change the statement from "does not discharge" to "cannot discharge" I agree with you, as I read the legislation as to referring to the capabilities of the firearm and not the intentions of the hunter.

All good!

To the OP sorry for the Hi-jack!

My apologies as well, lets hope the OP sees it as a value add to his thread and not a complete Hi-jack and that the information remains for future questions, as I believe it is important information to consider when spending the money.

[Trevorm]

I am aren't I? Doesn't make me wrong though.


Nonetheless let's see if you can resist logging in.

Nice one!

[cdbeagle]

Its an epic bundle for the price. Very reliable, fast shooting. Included 3 chokes and barrel length (20") is just fine for wing shooting, even comes with a 2 round mag if you feel you need to limit it. Will work better for bush pig, as an ar platform just points better if you ask me. much better to put optics on if you plan to use slugs or night hunt.




Sent from my SM-G800H using Tapatalk

OP asked about wing shooting. The video has nothing to do with wing shooting and the type of shotgun recommended by s3renity is the worst possible choice for wing shooting. He doesnt know what he's talking about. A tactical style shotgun works great for turkey over here where you are aiming at the bird like you would with a rifle, they are useless for shooting flying birds.

Turkey shotgun:


Wing shooting shotguns:

[Flyluis]

Howzit, new to the site,

I want to purchase a semi auto shotgun for wingshooting, bushpigs etc. My budget is R15k, what would be the best option with that budget? I would prefer to buy new if possible.

So as a matter of interest, have you decided on a shotgun?