What penalty

**GlockForce** · 23-10-2017, 17:05

That seems to make more practical sense. 1FP per string / stage
As mentioned, if you get an FP per shooting position and there happen to be 4 positions in that string, an additional 40 points is hardly an accurate penalty for the advantage gained...
Lets see what other input we receive???

**Trundle** · 23-10-2017, 18:38

Originally Posted by Lian

I wouldnt be surprised if it's a PE per shot.

That issue was sorted a long time ago.

Skaapie is correct and I would asses 1 x FP for the stage.

However that said, if he's a novice and he's new to the sport then I'd let it slide.

Level 2 or higher and it's an FP regardless.

**The Beast** · 23-10-2017, 19:32

Originally Posted by Trundle

That issue was sorted a long time ago.

Skaapie is correct and I would asses 1 x FP for the stage.

However that said, if he's a novice and he's new to the sport then I'd let it slide.

Level 2 or higher and it's an FP regardless.

I don't agree about letting it slide with novices. In my mind it is better to explain and give the penalty. It's not helping the novice by not getting penalized when they make a mistake and also does not realistically reflect on their scores.

In my mind it undermines the authority of the rules and makes them seem optional which in turn give the impression the SO gives penalty's out of spite. Obviously this is not the impression that a new shooter should get.

I prefer a fair and consistent application of the rules regardless of shooter level.

**dux** · 23-10-2017, 19:35

Agreed Beast.

**Trundle** · 23-10-2017, 19:48

A NO and New to the sport, hit him with an FP?

Nah, we are there for fun.

Nothing is achieved by it, the new shooters are nervous, often have very little clue and are trying as hard as possible not to get DQ'd, or look like a 'tard.

Now he makes a minor blunder, and he gets klapped with an FP.

He's not going to upset the charts and he's gonna rank in the bottom 3 or 4 lines on the score sheet anyway.

Classifier, hit the rules.
Level 2+, hit the rules.
A new, NO shooter on the range for the first day, help him have fun.

He'll feel like a 'tard anyway for using 2 hands, but he'll be back for more.

**Skaaphaas** · 23-10-2017, 19:56

The word “flagrant” leads me to believe some sort of intentional act is required to gain an advantage. The SO catches him in flagrante delicto so to speak.

**Lian** · 23-10-2017, 20:14

Or you could simply have a friendly professional SO, that explained what happened. everybody stays friends, no hard feelings, it's a friggen game.
obviously you get dick SO's, but it's all about how it's handled. friendly faces and attitudes.... everybody stays happy. chill, relax, game on.

**The Beast** · 23-10-2017, 20:37

Originally Posted by Trundle

A NO and New to the sport, hit him with an FP?

Nah, we are there for fun.

Nothing is achieved by it, the new shooters are nervous, often have very little clue and are trying as hard as possible not to get DQ'd, or look like a 'tard.

Now he makes a minor blunder, and he gets klapped with an FP.

He's not going to upset the charts and he's gonna rank in the bottom 3 or 4 lines on the score sheet anyway.

Classifier, hit the rules.
Level 2+, hit the rules.
A new, NO shooter on the range for the first day, help him have fun.

He'll feel like a 'tard anyway for using 2 hands, but he'll be back for more.

I see where you are coming from and understand your point.
Out of personal experience having SO'd around 80 club shoots I have come to the realization that letting things slide does nothing to enhance safety or the application of the rules.

As an example. New shooter has finger on trigger. Tell him kindly to be vigilant about finger discipline. After 3 club shoots of this start giving a PE for a finger call, but only once in a shoot so as not to DQ the new shooter. Forward 10 club shoots and finger discipline does not improve.

I decided that I will SO said shooter on very stage and told other SO to help me check for finger calls. I also told the shooter that due to his terrible finger discipline that I will check him for the shoot. He was warned. Stage 3 DQ. I was the asshole for some reason. Next shoot finger discipline is up to scratch.

If he got DQ'd at the second shoot he would have learned then. It is not the SO's responsibility to baby a shooter until they eventually learn.
I was DQ'd on my 3rd IDPA shoot for sweeping my legs. It helped me be very vigilant.

This does not even cover the "but you did not give him a PE for that!" crowd.

Now I try to fairly and equally apply the rules to everyone. If I have doubt about the infringement I'll inform the shooter, but if it is clear I don't compromise the rules. I'd rather be called strict than unfair.

**Trundle** · 23-10-2017, 21:02

Yeah B.
But we are not talking safety, we are talking NO and first shoot.
Safety rules are one thing and and finger calls / sweeping etc are things that need to be dealt with.

Using two hands instead of one on a first shoot, and you whack him with a FP.
Pahleez, that's excessive. Actually more suggestive of small people with a little bit of authority.

It's guaranteed not flagrant, the NO is more worried about hitting the target and where his finger is, than gaming the stage.
Let him know that you are not giving him an FP and explain why is good enough IMHO.

It will be a talking point for him at the braai that afternoon.

If I SO new shooters I make a point of emphasizing, as well as knowing that they are new shooters.
I'm there for fun and so are they, I make sure that it's done safely and with a lesson if required.
I have no issue giving PE's to new shooters, but an FP on your first day out, nah.

**The Beast** · 23-10-2017, 21:14

Originally Posted by Trundle

Yeah B.
But we are not talking safety, we are talking NO and first shoot.
Safety rules are one thing and and finger calls / sweeping etc are things that need to be dealt with.

Using two hands instead of one on a first shoot, and you whack him with a FP.
Pahleez, that's excessive. Actually more suggestive of small people with a little bit of authority.

It's guaranteed not flagrant, the NO is more worried about hitting the target and where his finger is, than gaming the stage.
Let him know that you are not giving him an FP and explain why is good enough IMHO.

It will be a talking point for him at the braai that afternoon.

If I SO new shooters I make a point of emphasizing, as well as knowing that they are new shooters.
I'm there for fun and so are they, I make sure that it's done safely and with a lesson if required.
I have no issue giving PE's to new shooters, but an FP on your first day out, nah.

If it's their first shoot. Sure be lenient. But it is good for the sport to be consistent with applying the rules.