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  1. #11
    Moderator KK20's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is there an Acid Test for new carry ammo?

    My comfort zone is 2 mags through half a DOT torture and then 1 mag a month with carry ammo
    Zero glitch is my comfort level.

    Is this unrealistic? Am I way off and setting myself for something bad ?
    live out your imagination , not your history.

  2. #12
    Moderator KK20's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is there an Acid Test for new carry ammo?

    I do not want to go into the brand, batch issue .
    I is not a brand made in Ouagadougou =)
    live out your imagination , not your history.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Is there an Acid Test for new carry ammo?

    What I think you want to check is the proper function of the ammo in your gun under all conditions with the minimum ammo expenditure.

    Load a full mag and seat with a round already chambered thus +1
    Fire this freestyle. do this strong hand only and weak hand only.
    Then limp wrist a shot.
    4 rounds - what you are checking is that the gun still reliably functions when loaded to max capacity with a full mag pressing against the slide.
    The only acceptable failure here would be during the limp wristing. any other FTF, FTE Duds, Squibs, any failure is an issue.

    With a loaded chamber and one round in the mag. Repeat the above 4 shooting setups.
    4 rounds. - Only acceptable failure would be during the limp wrisitng.

    With a full mag. Cartridges tapped forward in the mag. Hold mag in one hand while tapping to move the cartridges to the forward most position in the mag. Shoot as per normal. optionally alternating between different grips every few rounds.
    Do the same with the rounds tapped to the back of the mag.

    This should come out under 50 rounds.
    Any failures other than the limp wrisitng is unacceptable. The limp wrist shots is to give me a feel of how energetically the slide is cycled by the ammo. Limp wristing can be difficult to consistently do and you don't want to train that, just want to know how it feels.

    This is what I do. Not sure if there are more ways to test.

  4. #14
    Moderator KK20's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is there an Acid Test for new carry ammo?

    ^ interesting .Thank you.
    live out your imagination , not your history.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Is there an Acid Test for new carry ammo?

    A test that I stumbled upon is as follows:
    Shoot the gun dirty with normal range ammo about 500 rounds. Then with full mag of SD ammo load the gun but make it autoforward and see if it feeds. I have SD rounds that autoforward perfectly in my clean SD gun but hangs up on the feed ramp when dirty. I don't suggest to use autoforward in a SD scenario but when things get hairy you can unintentionally force a mag in a gun.

  6. #16
    Moderator KK20's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is there an Acid Test for new carry ammo?

    If I had to duplicate my SD carry rounds ito bullet weight and velocity and then use 1/3 premium carry rounds with 2/3 reloads to do eg the DOT torture which I enjoy ( it is efficient ito time and ammo)
    I will then load up in a specific way so I will know the groups on target.

    Do you guys see any major flaws here ? ( this was I use 1/3 of expensive ammo but still shoot regularly).

    Appreciate the input.
    live out your imagination , not your history.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Is there an Acid Test for new carry ammo?

    I looked around for a test on this and struggled to find anything meaningful, so I made up my own. I don't know if it was meaningful, but it worked for me

    Just so happens the pistol was dirty with about 500 factory FMJs through it. I can't remember the specific sequence, but I shot a variety and combination of limp wrist, strong hand, weak hand, rapid fire, upside down, gangster style shots (fortunately nobody saw the gangster style shots).

    To your question though, zero failures is what you want, however zero failures doesn't guarantee a failure won't happen, just it didn't happen then. Unless I misunderstood you, it seems you want to test carry ammo and maintain your skill levels (i.e. practice) at the same time. To me, these are mutually exclusive.

    A function test to me is to make sure ammo cycles under all conditions, especially adverse conditions. Not having done the DOT test, but having read up now on it, it appears to be a good test of shooting ability, but not under severely adverse conditions.

    So to me, it's a case of get a box of 50, fire them under adverse conditions without being concerned about accuracy etc.

  8. #18
    Moderator KK20's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is there an Acid Test for new carry ammo?

    If we can do it consciously and with a bit of planing I am sure the cycling of carry ammo can be linked to a training drill. I do not see value in just burning ammo.
    live out your imagination , not your history.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Is there an Acid Test for new carry ammo?

    I agree with the comments of @Beast and @Graham12 above.

    In addition, I would also recommend that you case gauge (with a good case gauge, like the Dillon one) each and every round of your SD ammo. I have been doing this for the last 2-3 years since somebody I know (think he may also have been a GS member) had an out of shape SD round which wouldn't have fed correctly in a SD/emergency situation.

    ... and yes, this was with one of the well-known (and very popular) USA-manufactured SD rounds.

    I had always done this religiously with all of my competition ammo and, until that stage, had just relied on the QC measures of the ammunition company. Well, not anymore!!

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Is there an Acid Test for new carry ammo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham12 View Post
    I looked around for a test on this and struggled to find anything meaningful, so I made up my own. I don't know if it was meaningful, but it worked for me

    Just so happens the pistol was dirty with about 500 factory FMJs through it. I can't remember the specific sequence, but I shot a variety and combination of limp wrist, strong hand, weak hand, rapid fire, upside down, gangster style shots (fortunately nobody saw the gangster style shots).

    To your question though, zero failures is what you want, however zero failures doesn't guarantee a failure won't happen, just it didn't happen then. Unless I misunderstood you, it seems you want to test carry ammo and maintain your skill levels (i.e. practice) at the same time. To me, these are mutually exclusive.

    A function test to me is to make sure ammo cycles under all conditions, especially adverse conditions. Not having done the DOT test, but having read up now on it, it appears to be a good test of shooting ability, but not under severely adverse conditions.

    So to me, it's a case of get a box of 50, fire them under adverse conditions without being concerned about accuracy etc.
    I would like to know that my carry ammo will feed reliably, shoot accurately enough and hit where I aim, give the correct MV and a few more things. So part of my function testing would entail a few shots over the chrono and a group shot from a rest. The rest from "normal" SD positions, which is about anything. Beast has some valid points on ammo testing.

    When I replace my carry ammo, the old stuff gets shot during a practise session. This also forms part of function testing for the specific type, as I prefer to replace it with the same type of new ammo. That way a bigger picture is built of the ammo performance in my particular gun. If the ammo fails when it gets rotated out, I would revise my whole procedure and schedule.

    I would not carry ammo that gives a single failure during my testing. 1 in 25 is definitely not good enough.

    Some feed issues are due to mag malfunctions. I have just decided to scrap a mag that has been in service for 25+ years. Using such a mag for a function test would skew the results significantly. (It was relegated to range duty a while ago.)

    All this counts in favour of using more affordable carry ammo, even if it is not the latest and best tech. Not so easy in the less prolific calibres.

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