Man kills robber, injures two others.

[Skaaphaas]

No, his entire post was to say the criminals are protected and you cannot do anything.

Not going outside to confront them for fear of getting killed is an entirely different thing to the law preventing you from doing anything.

If you choose you may go outside and confront them. You may even use force to do so, pepperspray, batons, whatever. Should your life be threatened you may use lethal force to protect it.

But you are by no means required to watch it happen.

[SSP]

In civilized societies there is thing called due process which ensures that everyone is either protected or prosecuted by the letter of the law. Alleged is just law-talk which people easily interpret "stupid" or "politically correct", alas it's just legal terminology. The righteousness should and will be investigated, that's for the safety of everyone, not just for the alleged perps.

There are no good guys or bad guys till the proverbial fat lady has sung, thus this terminology.

The terminology goes beyond mere words in the South African context.

It is an expression of EVERYONE'S constitutionally protected and enshrined right to be regarded as innocent until proven guilty by a court.

[Kola]

45acpglock painted a scenario in which the car is in the process of being stolen in the early hours of the morning. I,too have a problem of the correct course of action to follow in this case. What do you do besides phoning the police and notifying the security company?

To go outside,armed,is risky...the one you do not see will kill you. You are compromising your safety as well as that of your families.

Skaaphaas...you make the distinction between lethal force and force to protect your property.All good...but how.I have no idea of how to use force in such a scenario,the chances of any action taken by you will likely get you killed or put you in a situation where you will have to use lethal force to protect your life.

So,you peep out the bedroom window while they steal your car...and do nothing....is that not what 45 said?

The fact that you do not know how to use force - do you mean you are not trained, afraid, do not understand the law around it?
For all of those, it is not the fault of the law, you have the choice to do something about it, the law certainly does allow you to act to protect property.

Do nothing - that is again your choice, the law is not forcing you to do nothing.

Ignorance of the laws are too often used as an excuse to do nothing, and ignorance is a choice too.

45acpglock made it seem as if the law prohibits you from doing anything and just watch. That is simply not true.

Is it smart to go out and confront the guys over any property, or is it better to leave them to take the Merc?
Depends on the scenario, and they are all unique.

[AK-Gunner]

It is an expression of EVERYONE'S constitutionally protected and enshrined right to be regarded as innocent until proven guilty by a court.

Yes, and this is how it should be and is in every society with a legal system based on the Roman Law like in South Africa (based on ius commune) and practically every western country. I don't see a problem here. The problem arises when common men and click-whoring media become the judge and the jury.

[FNBROWNING]

Semantics in no way alters the practical reality. Even assuming an acquittal should things turn bad the legal costs could likely bankrupt the average person.

[SSP]

Yes, and this is how it should be and is in every society with a legal system based on the Roman Law like in South Africa (based on ius commune) and practically every western country. I don't see a problem here. The problem arises when common men and click-whoring media become the judge and the jury.

Indeed.

[vinmarvin]

Would the court see it that way though? You went out to confront the suspects, even though you know they could possibly be armed and therefor you knowingly placed yourself in a situation where you foresee somebody could be injured or killed. Yes there are less lethal options but the situation may turn into a lethal one in a blink of an eye. Not sure if our legal system will then take kindly to the fact that you basically went out to "confront" the suspects and thereby escalating the situation to save your car. Maybe I just don't like my current car that much.....

[pre 64]

Skaaphaas / Kola

I hear what you chaps say and no..i do not have training as such but yes,i have successfully defended myself in a situation that required lethal force and yes another where a knife was involved,which did not lead to a shot being fired by myself and yes by 2 AK armed BG's where i managed to get the hell out of there despite being shot at.

So...i do not have either a wide eyed innocence nor a naive outlook on the matter.

If someone was stealing my car in my driveway,i would not go outside to confront them. Neither fear nor lack of training nor a lack of law knowledge has made me make this decision but common sense has. I would also not try to prevent the theft occuring armed with a baton or pepper spray....you do not know the numbers you are up against,how they are armed or what their mindset is.You go outside,leave your family unprotected in the house and then find yourself in a gunfight with multiple BG's ?

Part of preparation is playing out a scenario in your head.In this particular scenario i do not have a plan of action and really would not know what to do.

I also cannot imagine peeping at the thieves through my bedroom curtain and doing nothing.

[Kola]

Skaaphaas / Kola

I hear what you chaps say and no..i do not have training as such but yes,i have successfully defended myself in a situation that required lethal force and yes another where a knife was involved,which did not lead to a shot being fired by myself and yes by 2 AK armed BG's where i managed to get the hell out of there despite being shot at.

So...i do not have either a wide eyed innocence nor a naive outlook on the matter.

If someone was stealing my car in my driveway,i would not go outside to confront them. Neither fear nor lack of training nor a lack of law knowledge has made me make this decision but common sense has. I would also not try to prevent the theft occuring armed with a baton or pepper spray....you do not know the numbers you are up against,how they are armed or what their mindset is.You go outside,leave your family unprotected in the house and then find yourself in a gunfight with multiple BG's ?

Part of preparation is playing out a scenario in your head.In this particular scenario i do not have a plan of action and really would not know what to do.

I also cannot imagine peeping at the thieves through my bedroom curtain and doing nothing.

I asked the question not attacking what you said, but trying to understand what you were saying, now I do.

Common sense tells me let them steal the car, it is not worth possibly getting killed for, and hopefully it is insured.

Having said that, I think most people would really want to do something in attempt to stop the crime, but it is always best to avoid a fight if possible, especially against people who have no respect for existing laws and likely also no respect for life.

It still remains a choice, since the laws do allow us to prevent the theft, obviously withing certain boundaries, i.e. minimum force.

You seem to contradict yourself where I marked in bold, or maybe I am just not reading it correctly or understanding it correctly?
Just asking for clarity.

The thing is, and that is what I tried to get across in my clumsy way...
Our laws do not prevent us from attempting to prevent a crime in progress, but it is very strict about how we can do this.

Always a tough subject with varying opinions.

[pre 64]

Hi Kola...thanks for answering.

Ja,as much as i believe to go outside would be the wrong decision,it would really grate me to do nothing but watch.

Like you say..a tough subject with varying opinions.