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  1. #1
    Member Andrew Leigh's Avatar
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    Default Competency Validity

    Hi,

    My competency was issued on the 25/11/2011, how long is the competency valid for? The competency is for SD Handgun and Rifle.

    Cheers
    One too many wasted sunsets and one too many for the road .........

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Competency Validity

    When does your last licenses expire for your handgun(s) and rifle(s)?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Competency Validity

    "remains valid for the same period of validity as the period determined in this Actin respect of the licence to which the competency certificate relates.."

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    Default Re: Competency Validity

    The FCA used to have it as 5 years, and from a thread I saw float past recently, the SAPS are currently treating it as 10 years.

    To reiterate what has been said before, rolling competency certificate expiry is an incorrect interpretation of the FCA; you cannot license a new firearm every few years to extend the validity of your competency certificate in perpetuity.

    The wording of the FCA is troublesome, but tries to convey that the validity extension only applies to licenses granted against a competency certificate that is within its original validity period. This is to prevent the case of your license being revoked because the competency certificate behind it expired.

    This interpretation is held by of some our blue members, and while I used to believe in perpetual extensions, I've come to agree with their view.

    I play it safe and assume a 5 year expiration period.

    Previous threads related to this:
    http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...dment-in-writi
    http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...-SEC13-renewal
    http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...ce-of-the-SAPS
    http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...y-certificates
    http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...etency-Renewal
    http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...ificate-expire

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Competency Validity

    Quote Originally Posted by AshleyR View Post
    The wording of the FCA is troublesome, but tries to convey that the validity extension only applies to licenses granted against a competency certificate that is within its original validity period. This is to prevent the case of your license being revoked because the competency certificate behind it expired.
    And I reiterate, The comp remains valid as long as the licence. Hence, you can have 'roll-over' because the Act (and the amendment) is worded so badly. Thus, it does actually allow for "you cannot license a new firearm every few years to extend the validity of your competency certificate in perpetuity."
    If my S16 expires in 2020, for example, and I acquire another gun under that comp category in 2019, then the comp extends to 2029. That's the problem with the Act, because it doesn't allow for periodic/ regular check-ups by DFOs on your fitness, you merely state on re-licensing apps that "My circumstances haven't changed" and then show that your comp has extended.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Competency Validity

    Quote Originally Posted by JhbBoy View Post
    And I reiterate, The comp remains valid as long as the licence. Hence, you can have 'roll-over' because the Act (and the amendment) is worded so badly. Thus, it does actually allow for "you cannot license a new firearm every few years to extend the validity of your competency certificate in perpetuity."
    If my S16 expires in 2020, for example, and I acquire another gun under that comp category in 2019, then the comp extends to 2029. That's the problem with the Act, because it doesn't allow for periodic/ regular check-ups by DFOs on your fitness, you merely state on re-licensing apps that "My circumstances haven't changed" and then show that your comp has extended.
    Perhaps my explanation is insufficient. Please read the threads I linked, especially the older ones, where it is explained by different people that perpetual rollover is not the correct interpretation.

    Alternatively, here's a thought experiment:
    If perpetual rollover is correct, then renewing competency certificates is a waste of some time and money.
    If perpetual rollover is incorrect, then license renewals are going to be rejected because the competency certificate has expired, requiring handing in of firearms until a new license is issued several months later.

    I know which situation I would prefer to deal with.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Competency Validity

    Quote Originally Posted by AshleyR View Post
    Perhaps my explanation is insufficient. Please read the threads I linked, especially the older ones, where it is explained by different people that perpetual rollover is not the correct interpretation.

    Alternatively, here's a thought experiment:
    If perpetual rollover is correct, then renewing competency certificates is a waste of some time and money.
    If perpetual rollover is incorrect, then license renewals are going to be rejected because the competency certificate has expired, requiring handing in of firearms until a new license is issued several months later.

    I know which situation I would prefer to deal with.
    If the roll over stance is incorrect that would make us incompetent for 1 of the FAs (think S13) and not the other (think S15 or S16) all of which would be in our possession?

    Sent from my SpaceCraft using MindControl!

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Competency Validity

    Quote Originally Posted by AshleyR View Post
    The FCA used to have it as 5 years, and from a thread I saw float past recently, the SAPS are currently treating it as 10 years.

    To reiterate what has been said before, rolling competency certificate expiry is an incorrect interpretation of the FCA; you cannot license a new firearm every few years to extend the validity of your competency certificate in perpetuity.

    The wording of the FCA is troublesome, but tries to convey that the validity extension only applies to licenses granted against a competency certificate that is within its original validity period. This is to prevent the case of your license being revoked because the competency certificate behind it expired.

    This interpretation is held by of some our blue members, and while I used to believe in perpetual extensions, I've come to agree with their view.

    I play it safe and assume a 5 year expiration period.

    Previous threads related to this:
    http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...dment-in-writi
    http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...-SEC13-renewal
    http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...ce-of-the-SAPS
    http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...y-certificates
    http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...etency-Renewal
    http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...ificate-expire
    I disagree with your interpretation Ashley. I've had numerous licenses issued for handgun and shotgun with an EXPIRED competency. Meaning that I had existing licenses still valid under both shotgun and handgun classifications (that ran years past my competency expiry) and new licenses approved under each.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Competency Validity

    Quote Originally Posted by Brendank View Post
    I disagree with your interpretation Ashley. I've had numerous licenses issued for handgun and shotgun with an EXPIRED competency. Meaning that I had existing licenses still valid under both shotgun and handgun classifications (that ran years past my competency expiry) and new licenses approved under each.
    Certainly, one does sometimes get lucky with the CFR's interpretation of things on the day. However, there are also threads on this forum where people report the opposite experience; their application is rejected until they first renew their competency certificate.

    I am by no means commending the CFR's inconsistencies, nor the poor wording of the FCA, merely pointing out what I and others (SH, WZ, etc.) believe to be the accurate, and possibly safer, interpretation of the FCA wording.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Competency Validity

    Quote Originally Posted by AshleyR View Post
    Certainly, one does sometimes get lucky with the CFR's interpretation of things on the day. However, there are also threads on this forum where people report the opposite experience; their application is rejected until they first renew their competency certificate.

    I am by no means commending the CFR's inconsistencies, nor the poor wording of the FCA, merely pointing out what I and others (SH, WZ, etc.) believe to be the accurate, and possibly safer, interpretation of the FCA wording.
    I think we can all deduce from this, that there is no common interpretation of this section of the Act. I am thus using this my above interpretation in my appeals against the refusal of my 2 handgun licenses (expired competency).

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