Competency Validity

[A-R]

I think we can all deduce from this, that there is no common interpretation of this section of the Act. I am thus using this my above interpretation in my appeals against the refusal of my 2 handgun licenses (expired competency).

Indeed. I have however seen refusals due to "expired comp" where the apps were submitted more than 10 years after Comp date of issue. Then I have had my DFO tell me that I can't renew my Comp at 10 years, as it is still valid for 2 years till my "corresponding" license expires...

I would just submit a Comp renewal app with (or before) a new license app.

The whole system is a mess.

[julian]

This is from the amendment to the firearms control Act, maybe this will explain the wording on the new Competency certificates
Period of validity.



Amendment of section 10 of Act 60 of 2000, as amended by Act 28 of 2006
3. Section 10 of the principal Act is hereby amended by─
(a) the substitution for paragraph (i) of subsection (1) of the following paragraph:
(i) possess a firearm for one or more of the following purposes[,]─
(aa) self-defence;
(bb) occasional or dedicated hunting, or occasional or dedicated
sports shooting;
(cc) professional hunting;
(dd) private collection;
(ee) for business purposes as game rancher or in hunting;
(ff) for business purposes other than as game rancher or in hunting;
(b) the substitution for subsection (2) of the following subsection:
(2) Subject to subsection (3), [A] a competency certificate mentioned in Column 2 of
the Table below remains valid for the period mentioned in Column 3 of that Table
calculated from the date of issue [contemplated in subsection (1) (a) (i), (ii), (iii)
and (iv), remains valid for the same period of validity as the period determined
in this Act in respect of the licence to which the competency certificate relates]
, unless the competency certificate is terminated or renewed in accordance with the
provisions of this Act.
PERIOD OF VALIDITY OF COMPETENCY CERTIFICATE

Section number Purpose of competency certificate Period of validity of competency certificate


10(1)(i)(aa) self-defence 5 year

10(1)(i)(bb) occasional or dedicated
hunting or occasional or
dedicated sports
shooting 10 years



10(1)(i)(cc) professional hunting 10 years


10(1)(i)(dd) private collection 10 years


10(1)(i)(ee) business purposes:
Business as game
rancher or in hunting 10 years


10(1)(i)(ff) business purposes:
Business other than as
game rancher or in
hunting 5 years


10(1)(a)(iA) to possess a muzzleloading
firearm 10 years


10(1)(a)(iB) to possess a firearm as a
private collector 10 years


10(1)(a)(ii) to trade in firearms 5 years


10(1)(a)(iii) to manufacture firearms; 5 years


10(1)(a)(iv) to conduct business as a
gunsmith 5 years

[Andrew Leigh]

OK so after being told that I need to apply for competency along with my SD renewal I get to the station and am informed that the competency lasts until the last date of the last firearm for which the competency is valid? Sounds like perpetual motion.

Anyways did not need to renew competency.

Thanks for the responses.

[G33]

OK so after being told that I need to apply for competency along with my SD renewal I get to the station and am informed that the competency lasts until the last date of the last firearm for which the competency is valid? Sounds like perpetual motion.

Anyways did not need to renew competency.

Thanks for the responses.

The problem is usually at DFO level.... those guys are swamped with directives, more than 1/2 of which make little sense and then they are left confused with an angry public.

Glad you came right.

Sent from my SpaceCraft using MindControl!

[High Power]

[QUOTE=julian;1235936]This is from the amendment to the firearms control Act, maybe this will explain the wording on the new Competency certificates Period of validity./[QUOTE]

You quoted from the DRAFT Firearms Control Amendment Bill, 2015 which is NOT law. If it was then we would have microdots, ballistic testing and many other horrors! Please do not spread "Fake News".
As things stand at present it is fact that your competence certificate expires when you last licence does. So, yes, get a new licence and the validity extends accordingly.

Peter

[julian]

[QUOTE=High Power;1235966][QUOTE=julian;1235936]This is from the amendment to the firearms control Act, maybe this will explain the wording on the new Competency certificates Period of validity./

You quoted from the DRAFT Firearms Control Amendment Bill, 2015 which is NOT law. If it was then we would have microdots, ballistic testing and many other horrors! Please do not spread "Fake News".
As things stand at present it is fact that your competence certificate expires when you last licence does. So, yes, get a new licence and the validity extends accordingly.

Peter

Can you give reference to the act where this is in fact law that your competency is valid as long as your licence. I was merely pointing out where the wording on the new competency certificates comes from. According to the original act which is law all competency certificates are valid for 5 years every DFO has their own interpretation we all have to deal with our own DFO's and do what they want

Sent from my S40 using Tapatalk

[G33]

[QUOTE=julian;1235968][QUOTE=High Power;1235966]

This is from the amendment to the firearms control Act, maybe this will explain the wording on the new Competency certificates Period of validity./Can you give reference to the act where this is in fact law that your competency is valid as long as your licence. I was merely pointing out where the wording on the new competency certificates comes from. According to the original act which is law all competency certificates are valid for 5 years every DFO has their own interpretation we all have to deal with our own DFO's and do what they want

Sent from my S40 using Tapatalk

Think of it logically...

If you have 3 handguns (1xS13, 1xS15, 1xS16) and the one on S13 expires with the licence.... does that mean that you are no longer seen as competent ?

If so, do you then hand in your other firearms because of this?

Short answer is no, you cannot be incompetent with 1 fa as the unit standards are not section specific.

Sent from my SpaceCraft using MindControl!

[julian]

I understand exactly what you are saying there is so much confusion about validity and renewal of competency, with no clarification coming from CFR. The amendment I referred to was 2011 where they changed competency, that is where the brought in competency for muzzle loaders, and required that 6 shot muzzle loading revolvers had to be licensed. Not the one High Power referred to where they tried to bring in micro doting and ballistic testing. I have a copy of the draft amendment I can e-mail, but have no idea how to post it here.

I sit in the same predicament you refer to all my competencies are on one paper, all my personal licences are section 16 that is no problem. I am the responsible person for company firearms which are valid only for 5 years, so when renewing company licences with my competency, they look at the validity period relative to the application I am doing. So to prevent any issues or licence refusals I just renew it every 5 years.

[Tayls]

The FCA used to have it as 5 years, and from a thread I saw float past recently, the SAPS are currently treating it as 10 years.

To reiterate what has been said before, rolling competency certificate expiry is an incorrect interpretation of the FCA; you cannot license a new firearm every few years to extend the validity of your competency certificate in perpetuity.

The wording of the FCA is troublesome, but tries to convey that the validity extension only applies to licenses granted against a competency certificate that is within its original validity period. This is to prevent the case of your license being revoked because the competency certificate behind it expired.

This interpretation is held by of some our blue members, and while I used to believe in perpetual extensions, I've come to agree with their view.

I play it safe and assume a 5 year expiration period.

Previous threads related to this:
http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...dment-in-writi
http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...-SEC13-renewal
http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...ce-of-the-SAPS
http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...y-certificates
http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...etency-Renewal
http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...ificate-expire

***I thought that I would add a quick update, since I have just spoken to one of the officials at the Brooklyn, Pretoria FRC (viz. on Tuesday, 6th August 2019).

By way of background, my first Competency is for HG, R, SG and was originally issued on 2009/12/07 (and had a stated expiry date of 2014/12/06). Since the date of issue of the competency, I have bought and successfully licenced a number of other s.16 firearms, the last expiring of which expires on 2026/09/28. Having just spoken to the official at the FRC, she confirmed that notwithstanding the original expiry date of my competency (viz. 06 Dec 2014), the competency is deemed to have an expiry date of "... 10 years from the original date of issue". As such, I will need to apply for the renewal of my Competency ".... at least 90 days BEFORE 2019/12/06".

This therefore means that the Competency WILL NOT REMAIN VALID until the LAST-EXPIRING of my FA licences for which I used this competency (viz. this dispels the view that there could be perpetual validity of the Competency)... at least from the perspective of the Brooklyn, Pretoria FRC. This also dispels the (previously-held) view that the Competency would remain valid until the FIRST EXPIRING of the licences issued under the relevant Competency.

May I suggest that all of the GS members take note of the above and, if necessary, re-confirm with their local DFO exactly how they will interpret this issue.

[Steven001]

Ok how about this, I got my first comp in 2012, bought my first firearm (section 15) that same year and then a section 13 firearm after that, I managed to get lots of licenses after 6 years of my first license so It must mean that my competency is valid for 10 years due to my section 15 firearm as mentioned....

NOW I have sold that firearm, so is my competency automatically invalid and expired?

I hope not because I have an application pending, but lets see.....