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  1. #1
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    Talking Not a calibre question...

    I am a complete hunting rifle noob, so I need some info on issues other than calibre/rifle choice.
    I’m planning on mainly bushveld hunting, but I might like to try my hand at steel plates at slightly longer distances.

    I have settled on a Howa Hogue stock in .308 with a 20” or 22” standard barrel.

    So I need some advice on the following:


    1. How do I choose the correct rail and scope rings? I’m guessing this is dependent on the physical size of the chosen scope and whether the bolt can open and close easily?
    2. Most Howa owners says it is important to get it bedded/pillared (is that the correct term?) so that the Hogue stock doesn’t touch the barrel. How difficult is it to do and how much can I expect to pay a competent gunsmith to do it?
    3. I will be adding a suppressor. There are various makes of all different sizes. Is there something specific I should look out for ito size/weight/other? How difficult is it to get the barrel threaded and how much can I expect to pay a competent gunsmith to do it?


    Any info in this regard will be appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Not a calibre question...

    Quote Originally Posted by carleng View Post
    I am a complete hunting rifle noob, so I need some info on issues other than calibre/rifle choice.
    I’m planning on mainly bushveld hunting, but I might like to try my hand at steel plates at slightly longer distances.

    I have settled on a Howa Hogue stock in .308 with a 20” or 22” standard barrel.

    So I need some advice on the following:


    1. How do I choose the correct rail and scope rings? I’m guessing this is dependent on the physical size of the chosen scope and whether the bolt can open and close easily?
    2. Most Howa owners says it is important to get it bedded/pillared (is that the correct term?) so that the Hogue stock doesn’t touch the barrel. How difficult is it to do and how much can I expect to pay a competent gunsmith to do it?
    3. I will be adding a suppressor. There are various makes of all different sizes. Is there something specific I should look out for ito size/weight/other? How difficult is it to get the barrel threaded and how much can I expect to pay a competent gunsmith to do it?


    Any info in this regard will be appreciated.
    I love my Howa rifle, a second ones App is still at CFR.
    My 300WM sprter shoots sub MOA with PMP ammo and Sierra Game King handloads.

    1) Rings are tricky, because different brands have different hight profiles. Warne medium height rings will most probably not be the same height as another brand’s medium height.
    Best is to take the rifle and scope to your gunshop and see what will work.
    I think the minimum clearance between the front of the scope and barrel is 0.5mm. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.

    2) The cost should not be more than R2000. I am doing it myself on my next Howa that will have the hogue stock, it will probably not cost me more than R200.

    3) Two years back I paid R600 including a thread cap, this could cost up to R1500 depending on the gunsmith.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Not a calibre question...

    On point 2.

    First shoot the rifle and see. I have a hogue stock remington and a hogue stock howa.
    Provided the front rest is not right in the front of the rifle I do not have an issue with my stocks. Sub MOA on both rifles.

    If you will be fitting a bipod then definitely need to do something, Messor posted a quick fix on one of the threads.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Not a calibre question...

    Rings need to fit scope main tube,1"/30mm/34mm
    Rings need to be high enough to allow free movement of bolt, generally as low as possible.

    Rings are attached via bases-1 piece(rails) or 2 piece bases. Rails can be "flat" or sloped(e.g. 20MOA) allowing more elevation adjustment of a scope for long range shooting. Rails also allow easier adjustment of scope position. The need for a sloped rail will depend on your scope choice as well as predicted shooting distance. With "flat" bases, work on 1/3 rd elevation adjustment(if your scope has 60MOA total elevation, you are likely to have approximately 20MOA elevation adjustment left after mounting and zeroing)

    Silencers-very few bad ones on the market. More modular ones are nice, but cost more. Try and check ones out at the range, speak to users and find out what their experiences are.

    Most competent gun smiths will be able to thread your barrel. R1000-R2000 for thread plus thread cap.

    Bedding can vary from asimple washer to lift barrel right up to custom alu bedding block, price about R2500. Proper bedding is usually a good place to start with trouble shooting if rifle isn't doing what you expect. I would shoot it first,lot of Howas shoot sub MOA with standard stock. I would first add a R400 adjustable cheek piece to give consistant cheek weld.

    Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Not a calibre question...

    The first question to ask is how far are these steel plates you want to shoot ?

    Then look at a scope that has enough internal adjustment to reach that distance.

    Then look at the rings, and a rail that has an offset less than half the scope ajdustment.

    eg : if the scope has 60 MOA holdover adjustment in total, fit a 25 MOA rail to the rifle.

    What you should not do is buy any scope first because it's cheap and has high magnification.

    You don't need anything higher than 14x magnification for long range shooting at plates.

    The same scope at the lowest setting is good for bushveld hunting.
    Last edited by 414gates; 21-02-2018 at 16:02. Reason: spelling

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Not a calibre question...

    Sorry for only getting back to you now, it has been a hectic couple of days at work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Will101 View Post
    I love my Howa rifle, a second ones App is still at CFR.
    My 300WM sprter shoots sub MOA with PMP ammo and Sierra Game King handloads.

    1) Rings are tricky, because different brands have different hight profiles. Warne medium height rings will most probably not be the same height as another brand’s medium height.
    Best is to take the rifle and scope to your gunshop and see what will work.
    I think the minimum clearance between the front of the scope and barrel is 0.5mm. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.

    2) The cost should not be more than R2000. I am doing it myself on my next Howa that will have the hogue stock, it will probably not cost me more than R200.

    3) Two years back I paid R600 including a thread cap, this could cost up to R1500 depending on the gunsmith.
    Thanks. It seems sensible to take both to the shop and see.

    Quote Originally Posted by singh17 View Post
    On point 2.

    First shoot the rifle and see. I have a hogue stock remington and a hogue stock howa.
    Provided the front rest is not right in the front of the rifle I do not have an issue with my stocks. Sub MOA on both rifles.

    If you will be fitting a bipod then definitely need to do something, Messor posted a quick fix on one of the threads.
    As I want to try my hands at steel plates at longer distances, I might want to fit a bipod. I remember something about Messor's thread. I'll see if I can find it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonedoc View Post
    Rings need to fit scope main tube,1"/30mm/34mm
    Rings need to be high enough to allow free movement of bolt, generally as low as possible.

    Rings are attached via bases-1 piece(rails) or 2 piece bases. Rails can be "flat" or sloped(e.g. 20MOA) allowing more elevation adjustment of a scope for long range shooting. Rails also allow easier adjustment of scope position. The need for a sloped rail will depend on your scope choice as well as predicted shooting distance. With "flat" bases, work on 1/3 rd elevation adjustment(if your scope has 60MOA total elevation, you are likely to have approximately 20MOA elevation adjustment left after mounting and zeroing)

    Silencers-very few bad ones on the market. More modular ones are nice, but cost more. Try and check ones out at the range, speak to users and find out what their experiences are.

    Most competent gun smiths will be able to thread your barrel. R1000-R2000 for thread plus thread cap.

    Bedding can vary from asimple washer to lift barrel right up to custom alu bedding block, price about R2500. Proper bedding is usually a good place to start with trouble shooting if rifle isn't doing what you expect. I would shoot it first,lot of Howas shoot sub MOA with standard stock. I would first add a R400 adjustable cheek piece to give consistant cheek weld.

    Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
    Thank you! I'll have a look around and speak with other shooters.

    Quote Originally Posted by 414gates View Post
    The first question to ask is how far are these steel plates you want to shoot ?

    Then look at a scope that has enough internal adjustment to reach that distance.

    Then look at the rings, and a rail that has an offset less than half the scope ajdustment.

    eg : if the scope has 60 MOA holdover adjustment in total, fit a 25 MOA rail to the rifle.

    What you should not do is buy any scope first because it's cheap and has high magnification.

    You don't need anything higher than 14x magnification for long range shooting at plates.

    The same scope at the lowest setting is good for bushveld hunting.
    If I can get consistent hits on steel at 500m, I'll be happy. Maybe, later on, I can get a dedicated long-range rifle/calibre.

    I'll go read some of the scope threads before deciding.

    Thanks for all the advice.

    I'll keep it in mind when making my decisions.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Not a calibre question...

    Quote Originally Posted by carleng View Post
    If I can get consistent hits on steel at 500m, I'll be happy. Maybe, later on, I can get a dedicated long-range rifle/calibre.
    Now you know the distance you expect to shoot, there are a few things to do in sequence before you go choose a scope. If you do things in the order presented here, you will save a lot of time, money and heartache.

    1. Decide what bullet you will be shooting with.

    This sounds easy, but it will be based on what is both available and affordable. Yes, it would be great to shoot bullets with a BC of 0.99, but where can you find them and can you afford it ?

    For example, 155gr Nosler Custom Comp are known to be good in a 308 to 1000 meters. Before the armchair rambos launch in, let me state that I spotted consecutive hits on a steel gong at 1000 meters with 155gr NCC in 308.

    These bullets are cheap [ relatively ] and more so if you buy a box of 1000.

    So be realistic in the bullet choice.

    2. Print out the ballistic chart for the load you expect to use, with the bullet you decide on, using the load data for that bullet.

    The ballistic chart will tell you what the bullet drop is expected to be at the range you're looking at. At 500 meters, the drop is not much, and in real life, a R4000 scope with mil-dot for holdover can do the job. Yes, I do have a R4000 scope that does the job, you may just need to zero on 200.

    3. Decide on your budget for the scope.

    Don't buy a cheap scope. If you don't have enough money for a decent scope, you can't afford the shooting.

    4. Look for a scope with enough adjustment for the range you plan to shoot.

    For 500 meters, an entry level scope with mil-dot , zero on 200 and using holdover should get you on target.

    On the ballistic chart you just printed, say you are looking at the 1000 meter line, and it says [ for example ] your bullet drop is 35 MOA, that means your scope needs at least 35 MOA internal adjustment capability.

    You will be very surprised at how that suddenly this, and the budget figure, narrows your choice of scope.

    Lastly, say your scope has a total of 40 MOA adjustment, that means it can only adjust 20 MOA up and 20 MOA down. Your chart says you need 35 MOA down. So you are 15 MOA short - then you get a 15 MOA rail fitted, and you can use 35 MOA elevation adjustment.

    Now you are ready to choose a scope.

    And only then do you choose rings.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Not a calibre question...

    Thank you very much for this explanation.
    Regarding scopes, an often used rule of thumb on GS seems to be to spend the same amount of money on your scope as you spent on your rifle.

    In my case, this will probably then be around the R10K mark. A quick Internet search shows that I should get a halfway decent scope for that price.

    I seem to have a lot of reading in my future with regards to bullet selection...

    Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Not a calibre question...

    Quote Originally Posted by carleng View Post
    Regarding scopes, an often used rule of thumb on GS seems to be to spend the same amount of money on your scope as you spent on your rifle.
    Not sure about that statement, maybe I am not experienced enough.

    I have a Remington 700 .308, 14k fitted with a Nikon Monarch 3 5-20 for 4.7k at the time. I have shot 0.3moa groupings with this rifle. No issue with it while hunting, holding zero even after I hit a big fall with it during a hunt.
    The scope is about 7k now. Most this rifle will be shooting is 300m

    Note I am not saying buy Cheap! buy the correct scope for the application.
    I have 15k tango 5 sig sauer scope fitted to my 9k Howa 6.5creedmoor, this is slowly being built to a 1000m+ gun.

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