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  1. #21
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    Default Re: The Unspoken pain of White Youth that fought for Apartheid

    The SAN played an important role in supporting strike craft and submarine borne SF and intelligence gathering operations down the west and east coast of Southern Africa. I imagine it would have been pretty unpleasant being tossed around the Atlantic in a strike craft, or having to transit submerged in a submarine for extended periods.

  2. #22

    Default Re: The Unspoken pain of White Youth that fought for Apartheid

    Quote Originally Posted by KK20 View Post
    I would not take away that military training and discipline is very good for people of that age and can be a could grounding for the rest of their lives.

    What is the after effects on the mother after losing her only son and her subsequent fitting into society or a young wife that ends up a single parent abd the effects on her and the child.

    Yes we have this in all wars , I agree.

    Wrt the Navy, I think that our navy did get called up to fight on the border. The police force also got called up.
    Yes to the mother. As I said, there were pockets. But there weren't all that many of them in context. As a percentage of the total number of white lads in uniform, the number who died was very small and even smaller the number who died in combat. There were guys who couldn't take it and committed suicide. But these were far and away the exception.

    As to the SAN, by and large it was regarded as a holiday camp compared to the army and much the same with AF. I'm not saying there weren't pockets of tough training but on the whole, the army was the "afk@k" centre and not the other two arms.

    Anyway, we all have our perceptions.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit: occidentis telum est.

    Seneca (4 BC - 65 AD)

  3. #23
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    Default Re: The Unspoken pain of White Youth that fought for Apartheid

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderin' Zero View Post
    Yes to the mother. As I said, there were pockets. But there weren't all that many of them in context. As a percentage of the total number of white lads in uniform, the number who died was very small and even smaller the number who died in combat. There were guys who couldn't take it and committed suicide. But these were far and away the exception.

    As to the SAN, by and large it was regarded as a holiday camp compared to the army and much the same with AF. I'm not saying there weren't pockets of tough training but on the whole, the army was the "afk@k" centre and not the other two arms.

    Anyway, we all have our perceptions.
    And the SA Marines? Are they comparable to our American and UK counterparts?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by noost View Post
    And the SA Marines? Are they comparable to our American and UK counterparts?
    The Marine contingent of the SADF was never a large number of people. They were primarily responsible for harbour security. They were deployed to Caprivi region and were mostly responsible for patrols along the rivers in that region.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: The Unspoken pain of White Youth that fought for Apartheid

    How anyone copes with the hardships of military training and deployment depends largely on the person himself. I have seen recruits "crack up" because thay had trouble learning to make a bed...

    I would jump at the opportunity to send my sons for military training of the kind that I had to involuntarily endure. They would benefit from such an experience and would be better persons. Yes, sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

    Yes, a lot of young men died as conscripts. And I agree that this was unneccesary, especially considering that the politicians had every intention of capitulating long before it actually happened. (Like all politicians, they clung to their positions so as to loot just a little more.)

    Just to put the numbers in perspective:

    Between 2000 and 2400 SA soldiers died in SA service from 1976 to 1994. This includes soldiers of all races, but excludes some 32 Bn casualties before they became fully-fledged SADF members. And about half of these deaths were the result of road accidents. A relatively small percentage were actually killed by the enemy.

    Compare these numbers to the murder rate of civillians in SA from 1994 to present. An annual murder rate of between 15 000 and 30 000. Between 70 000 and 90 000 white citizens murdered, of which about 2000 were farmers.

    I put it to you that life in the SA Army, and especially in the SA Infantry, was much safer during the border war, than what it is on the streets of SA right now. And this is primarily because the soldiers were armed and trained to shoot back first.

    So if the learned scholar wants to discuss the scars left on people during the border war era, it should be seen from the perspective of people scarred by the crime and violence we all experience in the post-border war era.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: The Unspoken pain of White Youth that fought for Apartheid

    The few marines and the SAAF security elements officers and NCO's trained with the SA Infantry. While on JL's, one of my fellow platoon members was a "coulored" Air Force PF member. He did everything we did, except wear a green beret. Naval officers and NCo were also regular attendees at Infantry School traing courses. Some Infantry NCO's attended the SAAF PTI course.

    I think there was enough cross-training to keep standards very similar. But yes, we did say that the Air Force and Navy's conscripts were actually draft-dodgers...

  7. #27
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    Default Re: The Unspoken pain of White Youth that fought for Apartheid

    Death on duty cause trauma to the family. Those that experienced war and returned home carry scars which I think the paper focuses on.

    I wonder how the research project gathered information as this little discussion here on GS shows a different story!
    WRT to our crime situation in RSA now, its blown up in the face of those that thought we had a peaceful transition to democracy.
    live out your imagination , not your history.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: The Unspoken pain of White Youth that fought for Apartheid

    Quote Originally Posted by KK20 View Post
    WRT to our crime situation in RSA now, its blown up in the face of those that thought we had a peaceful transition to democracy.
    Some may well say that we are still "in transition".

  9. #29
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    Default Re: The Unspoken pain of White Youth that fought for Apartheid

    "by the perceived threats of communism"


    There was a very real threat from communism, cold war and what not

  10. #30
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    Default Re: The Unspoken pain of White Youth that fought for Apartheid

    Quote Originally Posted by StanCT View Post
    Some may well say that we are still "in transition".
    Indeed.
    live out your imagination , not your history.

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