Old shotguns and new powders.

**Trayton** · 11-04-2018, 14:35

So these beautiful old double guns with Damascus barrels were used with black powder back in the day and had to be reproofed for modern smokeless powders of our time.

What proof marks should one look for to figure out if the gun us safe to use with modern loads and powders.

If it is not nitro proofed then is there a loading recipe available to safely load modern powders at lowers pressures to safely use them?

**johannvdg** · 11-04-2018, 14:57

Give Bruce Wentzel at Valley Trading/Hire Arms a call and get his opinion, I'll bet he has more knowledge on this than anybody on GS, and he'll give you a straight answer, no beating about the bush.

**Ds J** · 11-04-2018, 15:29

Get brass shotgun cases and reload with black powder. Pressure spikes on nitro powders differ from black powder. In the ong run it is not wise.

There was a tread on nitro powder in a Martini Henry, maybe three years ago.

**Luker** · 11-04-2018, 15:52

Originally Posted by Ds J

Get brass shotgun cases and reload with black powder. Pressure spikes on nitro powders differ from black powder. In the ong run it is not wise.

There was a tread on nitro powder in a Martini Henry, maybe three years ago.

Where would one get brass shotgun cases ?

**Ds J** · 11-04-2018, 17:32

Originally Posted by Luker

Where would one get brass shotgun cases ?

Contact Finkelstein. He bought 16ga and might know more.

**Trayton** · 11-04-2018, 17:41

Jaap the problem us j then need to get an explosives permit or whatever for the black powder...and then I will need a black powder rifle because I can't whine about needing the permit etc.

See just a bad idea.

**Luker** · 11-04-2018, 18:54

Originally Posted by Ds J

Contact Finkelstein. He bought 16ga and might know more.

Thank you.

**BBCT** · 11-04-2018, 21:27

Originally Posted by Trayton

So these beautiful old double guns .......

What proof marks should one look for to figure out if the gun us safe to use with modern loads and powders.

............

Google Nitro Proof Marks and you will find some examples. The proof marks themselves vary depending on where the gun was manufactured and/or proofed, so knowing where it comes from will help when aswering your question.

Offhand I know nothing about South African proof marks, but the British ones (from London or Birmingham proof house) say either "NP" along with a crown or some other symbol, or just plain "Nitro Proof".

There was also this thread in the last day or 2 about a Perrins shotgun where I gave some info about Belgian Proofs, including Nitro Proof. http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...-Shotgun/page2

Do you have pictures of the proof marks on the gun in question?

**Rick Pascoe** · 11-04-2018, 22:42

You have to be very careful with these old shotguns. I have seen some damascus barrels that have unwound like a spring. Remember that the were made by forging strips of metal around a mandrel.The worst case scenario is when the let go like a grenade. Also remember that the barrels and the ribs are soldered together. One can test whether every thing is still sound by suspending the barrels by the lug from your left index finger and striking them with some solid object like the handle of a screwdriver. If it does not ring like a bell don't fire it and get it to a smith that understands old guns.

**Ds J** · 11-04-2018, 22:55

Originally Posted by Rick Pascoe

One can test whether every thing is still sound by suspending the barrels by the lug from your left index finger and striking them with some solid object like the handle of a screwdriver. If it does not ring like a bell don't fire it and get it to a smith that understands old guns.

Could one test it with NDT equipment?