Safariland CD-2 Speedloader Holder IDPA Legal?

**TheFogg** · 16-08-2018, 23:04

Hi all,

Does anyone know if the Safariland CD-2 Speedloader Holders are now legal for IDPA, starting with the 2017 rule book?

In older versions of the IDPA rule book, the CD-2 holders were not legal as the rules forbid open sided designs for speed loader carriers (but not moon clip carriers).

It looks like the latest rule book has aligned the speed loader carrier rules with the moon clip carrier rules.

Are CD-2s now legal?

8.6.3 Speed Loader and Moon Clip Carrier Rules
B. Speed loader carriers must either be of open top configuration that covers at least 45% of the diameter and
100% of the cartridge height when viewed from the front, and must retain the speed loader by tension or retain
the speed loader with a snap or Velcro closure. Side cuts are permitted for thumb and index finger access only.
C. Moon clip carriers must either be of open top configuration that covers at least 45% of the diameter and 100%
of the cartridge height when viewed from the front, and must retain the moon clip by tension and a stud that
protrudes through the center of the clip, or retains the moon clip with a snap or Velcro closure.

**MyWereld** · 17-08-2018, 21:22

Is it this one?
https://www.safariland.com/products/...der-11227.html

If so, then I would argue that it does not cover 45% of the diameter.

Look for holders like these:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....rL._SY355_.jpg

https://www.amazon.com/Hogue-HoldALL.../dp/B00IWNE51M

**TheFogg** · 18-08-2018, 13:35

Yes, that's the one.

I agree with the 45% cover part, however I recall similar carriers as being allowed for Moon Clips in IDPA.

I can't find all the links right now, but one of the discussions on this was the one below:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-w...older-mod.html
"...IDPA decided right off the bat to make the Safariland CD-2 and 333 carriers illegal for IDPA Match use...
...Now in ESR the SAM (Shoot A Moon) carriers are legal, and are almost the exact same carrier as a CD-2 with a center post added."

Also, I recall seeing an IDPA slide set with photos of approved carriers, and one of the photos in that slide set seems to look very much like the CD-2. The moon clip carrier in the slide seems to be a SAM model, and the speed loader looks like a Safariland CD-2 from what I can tell (click on the photo to enlarge it):

Speed Loader & Moon Clip Carriers IDPA Must.jpg

**Piet vWdVries** · 19-08-2018, 09:59

Sadly rule 8.6.3 B is one of the most badly written rules in the current rulebook. If you read it carefully, you will see it is the result of multiple edits, some of which were not fixed or explained before going to print. The result is a weirdness.

Additionally, the discussions on the SnW forum mentioned above, as well as older discussions on the internet citing rules from previous incarnations of IDPA, and links to pages on idpa.com with explanations and clarifications are not relevant. This is because the divisions those rules were written for do not exist anymore. Nor do those rules and clarifications. Nor do the links and pages at idpa.com.

All we have now is 8.6.3 B. And it is, sadly, not very clear. For example "Either...(or?)" and "45%"...of what? The loader? The cartridge(s) ("s" is not in the rules), so then...a single cartridge? "Side Cuts" must refer to cuts made in the sides... this does not cover where there was nothing on the side to cut...

So, whether you can use it depends on how far you are willing to escalate it if an MD whacks you. Unclear rules sadly cut both ways. You can use it to your advantage, but it can be used against you just as effectively.

But whatever form the argument takes, 8.6.3 cannot then really help anyone, and in the end the jury always is going to go back to the "must be suitable for concealed carry and continuous wear". In which case the retention strength of the holders are going to come into play. And if you can demonstrate that yours does that job, you may be just fine.

**Piet vWdVries** · 19-08-2018, 10:05

Also see "8.6.1 C" : "Ammunition carriers may be modified to meed IDPA rules"

So, if you are not sure, make a little pouch to put the body of the CD-2 in. Or rivet or glue a piece of plastic or something across the front arm. Many ways!

**Piet vWdVries** · 19-08-2018, 10:20

Sorry, one last thought: I imagine that, had there been someone at IDPA knowledgeable about revolvers when the new rules came out, they would have approached the differentiation between moonclip carriers and speedloader carriers in a different way, and with much more clarity. The question of suitability for wear has a little to do with the method the loaders use to release the cartridges. Moonclips retain their cartridges by spring tension permanently. IOW, no matter how you twist the moonclip in the holder, the cartridges cannot escape unless there is a failure of the clip. Thus, the holder can be more open , because the cartridges are "permanently" captured. With a speedloader it is different, and it is very possible for the loader to twist of get depressed or for you to otherwise accidentally release the cartridges inside the pouch. Therefore the pouch needs to be such that it retains both the cartridges (loose) and the loader body, for later recovery. Retaining the cartridges is a big thing in IDPA as you know

I believe this was the original idea behind the differentiation of the two methods in IDPA, but the appreciation of that difference got lost through the years and iterations of rules.

**TheFogg** · 19-08-2018, 10:28

Hi Piet,

Many thanks for taking time to type up all those points, you’ve literally answered a whole range of questions I had regarding speed loaders, moon clips and the various carrier designs. The big point that I kept missing was what happens if I were to accidentally trigger the speed loader to release, while still on my body. Now it all makes a lot more sense to me, thank you!