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Thread: Loaded Rifles.

  1. #91
    Member Andrew Leigh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loaded Rifles.

    So how do you carry Messor?

    You can alone climb through a fence alone and shoot yourself, wont be the first time, and wont be the last. Pray tell how being a lone ranger protects you?

    I sincerely hope you were not inferring that TStone takes drunken hunters on group hunts? Not all groups get pissed all day long. Farms and PH's have a very dim view of this practice.

    Spending your entire time hunting could be a problem, self belief can lead to arrogance and arrogance to familiarity, which breeds contempt.
    One too many wasted sunsets and one too many for the road .........

  2. #92
    Member Messor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loaded Rifles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Leigh View Post
    So how do you carry Messor?

    You can alone climb through a fence alone and shoot yourself, wont be the first time, and wont be the last. Pray tell how being a lone ranger protects you?

    I sincerely hope you were not inferring that TStone takes drunken hunters on group hunts? Not all groups get pissed all day long. Farms and PH's have a very dim view of this practice.

    Spending your entire time hunting could be a problem, self belief can lead to arrogance and arrogance to familiarity, which breeds contempt.
    ???

    I was referring to the fact that he doesn't like glassing with a rifle.
    I've done this numerous times, carrying only a rifle, no backpack or nothing, what else should I glass with? Or pointing whiles hunting alone, whom must you point?


    What do you think I did this weekend, or all the rest for that matter, creating contempt?
    Don't bother, I got the tone of the question.
    "It's not the dying part that scares me, it's the not living."

  3. #93
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    Default Re: Loaded Rifles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digby View Post
    Not to be overly dramatic...but this post could quite literally have saved someone's life. It would be interesting to get a gauge from yourself and others like Pre64 as to how prevalent this mode of carrying is in your experience with numerous local and/or foreign hunters?
    The only way I walk with a rifle to hunt and a guide in front of me is to press down the round and close the bolt over it, no round in the chamber, when I want to take a shot I cycle the bolt , aim and shoot...there are always enough time to do this..since you need to take careful aim ..nou rush...this is the safest way to walk /stalk with a rifle...I will not allow any hunter to hunt with me if he only relies on using a safety at all...before I even commence hunting I show the guide this as well as my son Ruan do it this way...I do not use a safety at all, never....

  4. #94
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    Default Re: Loaded Rifles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Messor View Post
    Understand one thing, the same way you feel about this, realize that hunting with a PH is not natural. You know I respect you, but if I glass with my rifle that have f-all to do with you. If people just read through this thread carefully then all the problems involves other people, and hunting does not involve other people.

    If you hunt alone, then neither driving, nor climbing fences, neither walking, neither anything is a problem when the safety rules are applied. The second you hear people talk about safety, it's normally invoked in a group setup. Spend your whole life shooting and hunting and safety is almost never a problem. Do your yearly group hunt where drinking is more important than hunting, then please stop talking rifles and their capabilities, worry about the humans.

    I have seen fools trying to tell me how to carry a rifle, with a bolt open, that is why I don't do group hunts.
    Any mechanical thing breaks, when alone that leaves a lot smaller chance of accidents. Hunters should not try and measure hunting safety with what they perceive to be hunting.
    At the risk of sounding like a politician, read this in the context that it was written in. As a PH you have a person with a rifle, sometimes two persons with rifles behind you. As a PH you often stop and glass, most hunters, who do not carry binoculars, will use these times to scan the landscape through their rifle scopes. I am sure that even you will find it aggravating to have one or two, hopefully, unloaded rifles waved around behind you and occasionally pointed at you.

    Sure hunting with a PH or guide is not natural but how many people on this forum hunt alone? Obviously when you are hunting alone, and in an area where there are no other people you can point your rifle at, glassing with a rifle scope is not a danger to anyone. So, relax the comment was not aimed at you.

    As you so often point out to me, not a lot of people get to hunt the way we do (alone). This comment was aimed at the majority of hunters, who do hunt with guides.

  5. #95

    Default Re: Loaded Rifles.

    Quote Originally Posted by TStone View Post
    At the risk of sounding like a politician, read this in the context that it was written in. As a PH you have a person with a rifle, sometimes two persons with rifles behind you. As a PH you often stop and glass, most hunters, who do not carry binoculars, will use these times to scan the landscape through their rifle scopes. I am sure that even you will find it aggravating to have one or two, hopefully, unloaded rifles waved around behind you and occasionally pointed at you.

    Sure hunting with a PH or guide is not natural but how many people on this forum hunt alone? Obviously when you are hunting alone, and in an area where there are no other people you can point your rifle at, glassing with a rifle scope is not a danger to anyone. So, relax the comment was not aimed at you.

    As you so often point out to me, not a lot of people get to hunt the way we do (alone). This comment was aimed at the majority of hunters, who do hunt with guides.
    Agreed. Like Messor I mostly hunt alone. When hunting with others the rules change, and we have a chat around firearm safety before we go out hunting, and while on the hunt if needed.
    Two shooting accidents in our intake when I did my military service are still fresh in my mind, I still find myself being hyper vigilant after all these years.
    Muzzle safely is the first place I start at, then the rest.


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  6. #96
    Member Messor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loaded Rifles.

    Quote Originally Posted by TStone View Post
    At the risk of sounding like a politician, read this in the context that it was written in. As a PH you have a person with a rifle, sometimes two persons with rifles behind you. As a PH you often stop and glass, most hunters, who do not carry binoculars, will use these times to scan the landscape through their rifle scopes. I am sure that even you will find it aggravating to have one or two, hopefully, unloaded rifles waved around behind you and occasionally pointed at you.

    Sure hunting with a PH or guide is not natural but how many people on this forum hunt alone? Obviously when you are hunting alone, and in an area where there are no other people you can point your rifle at, glassing with a rifle scope is not a danger to anyone. So, relax the comment was not aimed at you.

    As you so often point out to me, not a lot of people get to hunt the way we do (alone). This comment was aimed at the majority of hunters, who do hunt with guides.
    Yeah but I know the comment wasn't aimed at me, because I know you by now, you just missed the point I was trying to make.

    Put a group of people together, and then rules needs to be implemented to manage them. This is clearly evident when Pirate brought in competition handgun shooting. It's clear that almost all people here have some pedantic fear of others doing something stupid in the hunting field, but if you are not a PH , why assume these rules are the norm? The second you get to the group environment then some will/have to impose some sort of thing on the others, the question is does that which they impose actually make sense?

    The same goes for the whole equipment usage thing.
    When not hunting, carry empty chamber, when on game, carry loaded with the safe on. When done shooting, safety the weapon, I do this before I even touch the animal as I put the rifle down. All these others things, like carrying a bolt open, not wanting to use the safety, this have nothing to do with the topic. If your 90-voertsek rifle is unsafe to use in a specific way, then buy a proper one. I mean how many times have your Howa's failed now, after untold shots? People should not come here and say open bolt this, empty chamber that when their opinions are based on faulty or substandard weapons. That is like saying people should not carry a Glock loaded because the pistol they had in 1930 failed when dropped etc.

    Tis not a hard topic this, people should just stop for a moment and first establish what their position of carry is based on. If it's based on something controllable, like a faulty weapon or bad design, change it. Or do you want to teach the next generation your opinion which is based on a flaw?
    No, again, just stop and think about everything you do whiles hunting, and figure out what everything is based on, why it's done this way etc. Because if you are going to try and force other people to do the same thing it must be for a damned good reason. Like someone who only hunts in a group, knowing only that protocol, now trying to tell me what to do?

    We cannot debate peoples preferences here, if advice is to be given it must be based on fact. You have already established 1 fact, you cannot carry it decocked, it's dangerous. So what facts are the rest of our carry methods based on?
    "It's not the dying part that scares me, it's the not living."

  7. #97
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    Default Re: Loaded Rifles.

    Messor...it is based on the enjoyment of the hunt. Priority #1 being safety.
    I,for one cannot relax and enjoy a hunt if i am constantly having to watch for stupidity.
    With clients,i impose safety and carry methods to my standards.I am responsible.I thought that these standards may be of help to other group hunters.
    On your own.....you can do whatever you like.

  8. #98
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    Default Re: Loaded Rifles.

    Quote Originally Posted by pre 64 View Post
    Same
    Ditto. I have seen a fair amount of of AD's while hunting. I cringe when farmers tell guys to load up and put their safety on before getting on bakkies. Most hunters don't have anywhere near as much shooting experience with their hunting rifles as pistol shooters get.

  9. #99
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    Default Re: Loaded Rifles.

    Whilst conducting proficiency training in upper Limpopo province every now and then I get hunters as well as PH's redoing their rifle proficiencies for various reasons, ie lost certificates etc. During the training I provide dummy rounds and ask the hunters/PH's to load the rifle as they normally do in the field, without considering what they have been exposed to at the training. At least 40% load a round in the chamber, keep the trigger squeezed and close the bolt, 30% load round in chamber and leave bolt in the "up/open" position and the last 30% load with round in the chamber and safety on. On enquiring the first 2 sets of people why they do not use the safety they indicate that they do not trust the safety on their rifle and that is how their father, uncle or grandpa instructed them. This is quite scary as most of these hunters / PH's have been hunting for years. I then demonstrate and explain how closing the bolt with squeezed trigger places the exposed firing pin in contact with the primer etc as discussed above. Most if not all did not know that the firing pin was pressing on the primer!!!! Every hunt I go on or assist local PH's I first have a serious discussion on rifle safety and carry conditions in the field, on vehicles etc. Do not expect that your average hunter that only uses his rifle once or twice a year has the necessary "competence" to use his firearm safely compared to your average sport shooter that is on the range at least once or twice a month. If you get hunters in or get invited make sure everyone gets a proper safety briefing and run through carry conditions as well. Correct unsafe behaviour immediately, but do it in a way not to embarrass the person and explain why their action was deemed unsafe and what is the correct procedure. Never expect that everyone has your level of experience in firearm safety.

  10. #100
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    Default Re: Loaded Rifles.

    This thread started out as an unloaded rifle in the safe. It seems we've now loaded the gun, chambered a round, closed the bolt and we're inching our fingers closer to the trigger.

    PS sorry for causing this. The OP comment was after I said I carry my rifle loaded, round in chamber and with the safety on (where possible).

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