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Thread: When to draw

  1. #11
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    Default Re: When to draw

    Quote Originally Posted by GarethBrowne View Post
    I'm a new firearm owner and my biggest fear is landing up in trouble for drawing/using my firearm and the judge feels deadly force was not justified.

    Yeah, someone breaks into my house, I'm pretty sure of the laws on that, but let's say I'm driving home at night, stop at a red robot and someone gets out the car in front of me and starts walking towards me. I have no way out and boxed in.
    Do I draw and get ready for an attack but keep my firearm hidden? Do I shout and tell h I'm armed and he must keep his distance? Do I draw, and point because I feel threatened? Do I keep holstered, and see what happens? Maybe I'm about to get hijacked, maybe he's coming to tell me my headlight is broken.

    A user posted on here that his wife was being threatened with a brick. He didn't go into too much detail but the judge didn't feel it was justified to draw. I would think it was. Maybe I would have shot the guy. A brick to the head could be life threatening.

    Does anyone have any scenarios when they have drawn/shot someone and not been in too much trouble?
    Would love to hear, besides the obvious housebreaking, hijacking etc.

    I'm sure this has been discussed, but couldn't find a link.
    some say a gun shouldnt be used as a deterrent, its used to end a threat as quickly as possible.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: When to draw

    obviously that choice is up to you as the firearm owner, but first choice is to get away if possible

    if not possible you dont draw a gun to scare, you draw with the intent to end a threat

    lots of guys in Durban running around with c02 replicas for when in traffic, this is no joke, i was told they use them in traffic to intimidate and get way.
    Gonna be someones "poor baby" who was a good boy, with his brains in traffic one of these days

  3. #13
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    Default Re: When to draw

    Practice your draw in your car with your seatbelt. Know how long it takes.

    Carry in the same position consistently, don't swap your gun between carry positions - ie. don't carry appendix and then swap to small of back because it's more comfortable when driving.

    Always keep it concealed. Yes it's legal to not cover your gun in your own vehicle, but just keep it hidden.

    Keep your doors locked, don't rely on the auto lock at a specific speed.

    Keep a space open in front of you and try avoid any situation if possible.
    But this part is very difficult, especially in peak traffic, because if you think another car/taxi has bumped you and caused damage then you usually want to get out and check the damage and get the other guys details for insurance.

    This is usually when things can get out of hand, particularly with taxi drivers who are generally arrogant bastards and come with their own unreliable witnesses to take their side.

    If no accident/damage has occurred, you can try defuse the situation through your window if someone comes to your vehicle at a robot. "I'm sorry for my driving, my friend. I am in a rush to get to a meeting, I am very sorry. I apologise."

    And get a dash cam if you can afford it.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarethBrowne View Post
    Thanks for the share.
    Do you feel you would have done something different today after another 20 years+ experience?

    I would say you did the right thing, but that's just my opinion.
    If for some reason you did get spotted, a judge may feel very different to you drawing (although you didn't point) on an "unarmed" man.

    Its a massive responsibility, and there are no clear cut do's and don'ts.
    The law is clear: you may protect your own life and the lives of others. That was what I was willing to do. Me being young and in a Hilux probably made me a target.

    Whether I would do the same thing? Basically yes, but maybe in another way. Keeping calm is really important.
    Assessing the situation is also important. In this scenario things were slow and not physically aggressive - there was time to assess and prepare. If he had a crowbar or screw driver I might have reacted differently. I also have to say that most of this comes with hindsight. My strongest memory is the realisation that I might have to fight for my life, and maybe even againat

    The best you can do is to prepare yourself mentally and physicallly for this, because without preparation very few people can execute the correct move at the correct time.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarethBrowne View Post
    Thanks for the share.
    Do you feel you would have done something different today after another 20 years+ experience?

    I would say you did the right thing, but that's just my opinion.
    If for some reason you did get spotted, a judge may feel very different to you drawing (although you didn't point) on an "unarmed" man.

    Its a massive responsibility, and there are no clear cut do's and don'ts.
    The law is clear: you may protect your own life and the lives of others. That was what I was willing to do. Me being young and in a Hilux probably made me a target.

    Whether I would do the same thing? Basically yes, but maybe in another way. Keeping calm is really important.
    Assessing the situation is also important. In this scenario things were slow and not physically aggressive - there was time to assess and prepare. If he had a crowbar or screw driver I might have reacted differently. I also have to say that most of this comes with hindsight. My strongest memory is the realisation that I might have to fight for my life, and maybe even against a group of people. I can also recall him walking up to the bakkie.

    The best you can do is to prepare yourself mentally and physicallly for this, because without preparation very few people can execute the correct move at the correct time.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: When to draw

    Good evening.
    I am not commenting on "when to draw" however after reading a few responses here I wish to contribute the following questions and hopefully have those who have real world knowledge and experience answer so the rest of us can benefit and learn.

    1) Does EVERY draw have to result in a shot/shots being fired?
    2.1) Once we have identified a threat and made the decision to draw do we still not have to DECIDE whether or not to pull the trigger or whether to use the various other options available in order to de-escalate/neutralise/stop the threat
    2.2) At this point could we still not evaluate/assess the threat and dominate verbally or even by use of force? (without pulling the trigger)
    2.3)Does the "A" in OODA (LOOP) = PULL THE TRIGGER?

    As an aside:
    We were told of a certain police officer who was cleared of murder charges (he shot and killed a suspect whilst on duty) by virtue of the fact that in his defence he (his lawyer) put forward to the state that he was trained to "REPEATEDLY" draw and fire but was never taught to draw and NOT FIRE, hence the burden of the death of the individual lay with the training received (this was in days gone by)

  7. #17
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    Default Re: When to draw

    Intro?

  8. #18
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    Default Re: When to draw

    I sometimes drive through real shitty places (day & night).
    Being a former hi-jack victim I can not stress enough how important situational awareness is. Luckily not all potential threats pans out to something more, but if it does go pear-shaped it usually happens real quick, and I would rather have my tool in my hand than my holster.
    Practise drawing from seated position in your car, but also practice having tool in hand (while concealed, as befitting whenever you have your tool in hand ;-) when you see potential threat and ready to put first shot on target, rather than hoping you can do a quick draw under extreme pressure and defeat the threat who starts off with an advantage in any case (he knows what his intentions are, You still have to figure it out).
    Logic prevails and every situation will dictate your response.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam-cz View Post

    1) Does EVERY draw have to result in a shot/shots being fired?

    2.1) Once we have identified a threat and made the decision to draw do we still not have to DECIDE whether or not to pull the trigger or whether to use the various other options available in order to de-escalate/neutralise/stop the threat

    2.2) At this point could we still not evaluate/assess the threat and dominate verbally or even by use of force? (without pulling the trigger)
    2.3)Does the "A" in OODA (LOOP) = PULL THE TRIGGER?
    Each situation is unique - therefore preparation is so necessary.

    To answer your questions:every draw must not result in shooting. One should be really glad if a situation gets dissolved by without violence.

    That is why awareness is important. By being aware one can sometimes elude or anticipate a situation, and act preventatively.

    Please search for threads and articles on the four "colours" or steps of awareness. One does not decide beforehand to shoot - in an ideal case one would only shoot because there is a direct threat to life, and no other way to prevent the attack.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: When to draw

    Do yourself a favor and watch this YouTube series. Someone posted this on the fb GS page a while back. It's 10 episodes and a couple hours worth of content, but it's a great start to getting your head in the right space.

    Concealed Carry Lecture, FPFTraining

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...L2ROyN-TSdDGLq


    Sent from my FIG-LA1 using Tapatalk

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