Bheki Cele wants citizens disarmed

**lithium** · 18-04-2019, 14:15

No firearms in the general populace's hands as a goal? Where have we heard that before in history?...

**marcvbsa** · 18-04-2019, 18:20

There was something on another thread about the public giving their consent to be policed, stuff like this is definitely resulting in a lot of people withdrawing their consent.

**PCfanatic** · 19-04-2019, 07:16

Farmers. With what will they protect themselves then? I might move to a smallholding out of town. If I am not allowed to own a firearm I cannot go there anymore. I allready feel like a sitting duck in town. Out there I will feel much less secure. I am 100% convinced that the police cannot protect any farmer as they will take too long to get there. This statement must be challenged. Why have no shooting organisation like Saga or so not released a response as yet? This is such a serious matter. Nobody should live in fear in a democratic country.

**gertjie87** · 19-04-2019, 09:24

Originally Posted by Spez247

The reality is that he has more tools to get this done, than we do as legal firearms owners. We are doomed if we don't mobilise and start acting like a united front. I am guessing that we are only in the region of 2-3million legal & compliant gun owners. Not a great deal in terms of forming policy, but maybe enough to be king makers....

The ZACP has what appears to be solid policy around gun ownership; as well as the other issues they would take on, that are key to getting us back on the high road (as Klem Sunter used to call it). Sadly they are the new kids on the block; but even so they are in the running as far as i am concerned. You could say they have never run a little town, let alone a municipality, province or country. But neither have most parties on the role. The current national governors have done a sterling job of running just about everything into the ground; so they shouldn't even be contenders going forward.

I would interested in a poll to see how gunsite members would vote. I know its supposedly an a-political site; but politics are getting in the way of our safety & futures. I wouldn't know how to set up a poll here; but i would cast a vote to see where we stand. Just a thought....

EFF took 6% last time that was 1.1m votes
Da took 4m votes
3m is a lot of people to influence policy.

**gertjie87** · 19-04-2019, 09:26

Socialists want monopoly on everything including force

**bodhi_** · 20-04-2019, 13:14

Originally Posted by gertjie87

Socialists want monopoly on everything including force

Governments want a monopoly of control, their political ideology is fairly irrelevant.

**bodhi_** · 20-04-2019, 13:19

Originally Posted by gertjie87

Socialists want monopoly on everything including force

Governments want a monopoly of control, their political ideology is fairly irrelevant. Absolutist governments (fascist and communist dictatorships) are more open about their intent simply because their ideology is based on ridding the world of an antagonism. In the communist religion it is their quest to a proletarian paradise which require the education or killing of those who hinder the quest. Fascism tends to be more national but their ideal state is also one were those deemed inferior are gone.

Democracies tend to use the security argument to reach their goal which is to have subjects not citizens.

Bit simplified but it boils down to simple arguments.

**Johann du Toit** · 21-04-2019, 12:25

Bheki Cele should be in prison for his maladministration of the SAPS when he was police commissioner.

His only "achievement" was to make him himself Supreme Generalissimo of the the Police, because he wanted to wear a nice uniform and medals he didn't earn.

**Marc05** · 21-04-2019, 14:02

I second that last comment, he has given direct instructions contrary to Criminal Procedure Act to arrest persons when there was no grounds to do so, not worried and most likely oblivious to the consequences.

**gertjie87** · 22-04-2019, 17:16

Originally Posted by bodhi_

Governments want a monopoly of control, their political ideology is fairly irrelevant. Absolutist governments (fascist and communist dictatorships) are more open about their intent simply because their ideology is based on ridding the world of an antagonism. In the communist religion it is their quest to a proletarian paradise which require the education or killing of those who hinder the quest. Fascism tends to be more national but their ideal state is also one were those deemed inferior are gone.

Democracies tend to use the security argument to reach their goal which is to have subjects not citizens.

Bit simplified but it boils down to simple arguments.

All the examples you gave of goverments are socialist goverments. There are other forms of goverment as well.