Motivation for kid to use gun.

**treeman** · 02-06-2019, 19:33

I am dedicated shoot and hunt,my family is involved in most of what I do. What do you guys think the results would be if I were to present a licence application as follows :
I am applying to licence this said, .22 /shotgun/ target pistol for direct and almost entire use by my child who is not of age to licence this weapon in his own right.
My son/ daughter is and has been shooting with myself for last 7 years and sharing a weapon has become tedious now that he is of concious age and capable of doing most things safely with out help. This does not mean that he will be left own devices with a weapon but that he can load asses and shoot safely with out me supporting weapon or him sitting on my lap. It has became increasingly obvious that he could be sitting with his own weapon shooting at his own target under my supervision while I shoot my own target. My son is a member of 3 shooting hunting clubs and has been shooting since he could speak properly.
I am therefore requesting to licence this sub sized .22 rifle for my 11 year old son to be used by himself.
PS - I could give some made up reason,but this is the truth and honest reason for application.
I thank you in advance for your efforts....................etc etc embellish and what not.

Wonder how that application would go - and if not well, how would it go if it got to court ---- a important consideration that, if its turned down and you go to court and pose the question - "should I lie to obtain a licence".

**Andrew Leigh** · 02-06-2019, 19:41

Originally Posted by treeman

I am dedicated shoot and hunt,my family is involved in most of what I do. What do you guys think the results would be if I were to present a licence application as follows :
I am applying to licence this said, .22 /shotgun/ target pistol for direct and almost entire use by my child who is not of age to licence this weapon in his own right.
My son/ daughter is and has been shooting with myself for last 7 years and sharing a weapon has become tedious now that he is of concious age and capable of doing most things safely with out help. This does not mean that he will be left own devices with a weapon but that he can load asses and shoot safely with out me supporting weapon or him sitting on my lap. It has became increasingly obvious that he could be sitting with his own weapon shooting at his own target under my supervision while I shoot my own target. My son is a member of 3 shooting hunting clubs and has been shooting since he could speak properly.
I am therefore requesting to licence this sub sized .22 rifle for my 11 year old son to be used by himself.
PS - I could give some made up reason,but this is the truth and honest reason for application.
I thank you in advance for your efforts....................etc etc embellish and what not.

Wonder how that application would go - and if not well, how would it go if it got to court ---- a important consideration that, if its turned down and you go to court and pose the question - "should I lie to obtain a licence".

Legal age is 21. You can get if underage people but I would doubt if a 11 year old would qualify. Probably around 18 and you may be in with a shout.

Surely there is no need to do this? At 11 he's going to be with you on a hunt?

**gertjie87** · 02-06-2019, 19:59

From 16 a dedicated sportschild can apply with parental consent if i remember correctly

**treeman** · 02-06-2019, 20:07

My question is not about legal age, its about a parent applying for a licence and stating that the weapon is wanted for use by a minor, not pretending its being bought for some made up reason.
How many times have you heard " I got this Ruger/ Howa 223 in Junior size for my daughter"
Even here on site the question is posed looking for rifle caliber suggestions for my daughter, I am asking how would a application go down where you state the weapon is being bought for use by a minor - for a minor to learn on.
No adult buys the Howa 223 in junior configuration for self, the thing is tiny - its meant for your child to use, and is bought with plausible but not intended use motivation.

**Ds J** · 02-06-2019, 20:11

You may try it; I doubt that CFR will approve that particular choice of words.

Take out:

"I am applying to licence this said, .22 /shotgun/ target pistol for direct and almost entire use by my child who is not of age to licence this weapon in his own right."

Stretch the fact that you cannot shoot with a single firearm between the two of you any longer.

Also add that the current firearm is actually too large for him; chopping it would render it too small for you.

**RevA** · 02-06-2019, 20:20

A few people have gotten lisences at age 16 if they have been dedicated hunters ect for a few years at that point, doubt younger is really likely to be approved.

**treeman** · 02-06-2019, 20:38

Originally Posted by Ds J

You may try it; I doubt that CFR will approve that particular choice of words.

Take out:

"I am applying to licence this said, .22 /shotgun/ target pistol for direct and almost entire use by my child who is not of age to licence this weapon in his own right."

Stretch the fact that you cannot shoot with a single firearm between the two of you any longer.

Also add that the current firearm is actually too large for him; chopping it would render it too small for you.

..........
DsJ - the words were just as came to mind for post, not as application but only to carry a intended question across. I do not know if I would ever bother with a entirely honest application - just too likely to be rejected, hence the post. If I were to put such a application in I would definitely emphasis how anything that is done to a weapon for a child's use would make it unusable for a adult and the loads would differ and POI etc etc
My little script was just to carry a idea across

**treeman** · 02-06-2019, 20:57

As you know I have once posed a similar question about the "bullshitty nature" of motivations, so much so that you can actually buy a "off the shelf" motivation from guys on the internet. So motivations are not motivations actually, they just a case of make the right noise's.
I recently was out at a pub ( I only go out once a week now, getting old) and met a guy in a wheelchair and when he moved I noted he had a large pistol between side of chair and self. ( to be fair it was only the tiniest part of butt, but as a gun guy I recognized the tiny part). We chatted about things in general and guns - he was not a gun guy but being a independent type he did things one up in a wheel chair and had been robbed before.I asked about his licence and motivation and one of the things said was, " I am in a wheel chair, I am naturally a easy target. **** They can not refuse me a firearm licence being in a wheel chair. Interesting and interesting belief indeed.
Now the barman is gay, very gay, + a bit more gay and a rather intellectual kinda fellow piped in - that he was applying for a firearm licence on the basis of being gay and discriminated against + works in a go home late after dealing with drunks environment.
He said he was motivating his application using the escalating violence against foreigners and gay people using a few past cases where he had received some "corrective" hidings.
Now my wondering about motivations - buying weapons for Cody usage (he is going to start wing shooting this year -He really wants to) , + a few conversations I thought I would ask opinions on a obvious subject grey area.

**driepootx** · 02-06-2019, 20:59

If your son is into shooting as it seems from your writing, then get him to do junior courses in working up to dedicated status. SA Hunters have got excellent training courses and a junior can join with a once off payment that ends only at 18 years of age. I would agree that the age of 16 is normally where a youngster could be eligible for getting a firearm licence.

**treeman** · 02-06-2019, 21:19

Originally Posted by driepootx

If your son is into shooting as it seems from your writing, then get him to do junior courses in working up to dedicated status. SA Hunters have got excellent training courses and a junior can join with a once off payment that ends only at 18 years of age. I would agree that the age of 16 is normally where a youngster could be eligible for getting a firearm licence.

...
I have inquired and it seems down here the general "get the nod" is when starting high school.I asked Stappies at ECGMA and he said past experience seems correlate with the high school - 16 yrs which ever general consensus.
Pre 64 has noticed him, and allowed him too wing shoot with him, just waiting for the official offer to school Cody. He wants to wing shoot, as in actively requests it, he has enjoyed the shotgun thing from 5 or so years old and Pre 64's shooting ability is often used against me by Cody( Not to blow any ones Trumpet,but Pre64 can really shoot in a different league, hand gun rifle shotgun jus way ahead of most folk) He can already judges the shooters from watching and comments on their ways and manner of shooting.