Results 1 to 7 of 7
  1. #1
    User
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    4,563

    Default SD firearm modifications and the CFR?

    In trying to get a second handgun licensed under DSS, part of motivation will be that the SD gun isn't suitable for IPSC "production" division.
    Now ordinarily, the S&W M&P 9mm falls into production div, but I want to put an Apex Duty/Carry Action Enhancement Kit into the SD 9mm. This would disqualify the FA for production division.

    Are modifications like this acceptable to a SD handgun from the CFR/FCA point of view? I just searched the FCA and the only thing I could find was this section here:

    Firearms Control Act, 2000
    Firearms Control Regulations, 2004
    Chapter 5 : Licences issued to particular categories of persons
    Part 4 : Gunsmiths
    50. Other work that may be performed by gunsmith

    The holder of a gunsmith’s licence may, repair, customise, custom build, adapt, modify, assemble, deactivate or store a firearm.
    I assume from the above that any customisation or modification should really be done by a gunsmith. If this is the case, I'd certianly only get the right people to fit the kit and possibly get a confirmation from them to support the motivation.

    How does one explain to CFR in the DSS license application what the Apex kit is and what it does...does one literally spell it all out, s.l.o.w.l.y and hope they get the idea of what it is?

    And then, is that a decent enough reason (besides wear and tear concerns on a SD gun) to motivate for a M&P .40S&W to compete in IPSC production div?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Moderator ikor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Age
    74
    Posts
    8,806

    Default Re: SD firearm modifications and the CFR?

    Asn I read it, the APEX duty kit will not exclude your M&P from SSP...


    Handguns permitted for use in this division must:
    A. Be semi-automatic.
    B. Be double action, double action only, or safe action (when
    the trigger is pulled, the hammer/striker is cocked and then
    released).
    C. Be 9mm (9x19) or larger caliber.
    D. Have a maximum unloaded weight of 39oz., including an
    empty magazine. (Will be effective January 25, 2006)
    E. Have a minimum annual production of 2000 units;
    (discontinued models must have had a total production of
    20,000 units).
    F. Fit in the IDPA gun test box measuring 8 ¾” x 6” x 1 5/8”
    with an empty magazine inserted.
    G. Be loaded to the division capacity of ten (10) rounds in the
    magazine plus one (1) round in the chamber. Should division
    capacity not be achievable because of lower magazine
    capacity, load to maximum mechanical capacity of magazine
    plus one (1) round in the chamber. Competitors must use the
    same capacity magazines through out the competition
    20
    (Example: if you start with a 9 round magazine, you must use
    that capacity magazine throughout the match).
    H. Begin hammer down for selective DA/SA pistols.
    PERMITTED Modifications (Inclusive list):
    1. Sights may be changed to another conventional notch and
    post type (see “sights” in glossary for further information).
    2. Grips may be changed to another style or material that is
    similar to factory configuration (no weighted grips; see
    “weighted grips” in glossary for further details).
    3. A slip-on grip sock and/or skateboard tape may be used.
    4. Internal action work may be used to enhance trigger pull as
    long as safety is maintained (no visible external modifications
    allowed).
    5. Reliability work may be done to enhance feeding and
    ejection.
    6. Internal accuracy may be worked to include replacement of
    barrel with one of factory configuration and original caliber.
    7. Plastic plugs may be used to fill the opening behind the
    magazine well.
    8. Custom finishes may be applied.
    NOTE:
    The slide releases and magazine releases that are standard
    on the Glock 34 and 35 models are available as a factory option on
    all Glocks available in the USA. Because of this, that type of slide

    release and magazine release are legal on all Glocks for SSP.
    Run Fast, Bite Hard!

  3. #3
    User
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    4,563

    Default Re: SD firearm modifications and the CFR?

    Thanks Ikor,

    I think SSP is for IDPA, but I'm refering to production division in IPSC.
    The rules for IPSC production are as such and don't allow mods like the Apex kit:

    19. Original parts and components offered by the OFM as standard equipment,
    or as an option, for a specific model handgun on the IPSC approved
    handgun list are permitted, subject to the following:

    19.1. Modifications to them, other than minor detailing (the removal of
    burrs and/or adjustments unavoidably required in order to fit
    replacement OFM parts or components, and/or identifying marks
    which add or remove negligible weight to/from magazines), are
    prohibited.
    Other prohibited modifications include those which
    facilitate faster reloading (e.g. flared, enlarged and/or add-on
    magwells, etc.) changing the original color and/or finish of a
    handgun, and/or adding stripes or other embellishments.
    19.2. Magazines accessible to a competitor during a COF must not contain
    more that 15 rounds at the Start Signal.
    19.3. Sights may be trimmed, adjusted and/or have sight black applied.
    20. Aftermarket parts, components and accessories are prohibited, except as
    follows:
    20.1. Aftermarket magazines are permitted, subject to 19.2 above.
    20.2. Aftermarket open sights (see Rule 5.1.3.1) are permitted, provided
    their installation and/or adjustment requires no alteration to the
    handgun.
    20.3. Aftermarket grips which match the profile of the OFM standard for
    the approved handgun and/or the application of tape on grips (see
    Appendix F4) is permitted, however, rubber sleeves are prohibited.
    21. A competitor who fails to comply with any of the requirements above will
    be subject to Rule 6.2.5.1.

  4. #4
    Moderator ikor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Age
    74
    Posts
    8,806

    Default Re: SD firearm modifications and the CFR?

    Spend some time here on Brian Enos' Forums (they do have a specific M&P forum also) and see what the guys who shoot them in Production are doing.

    I know S&W is now delivering the Pro models in .40 as well as 9mm and they also make a Massachusetts compliant trigger return spring (few people know they offer these but they do) that is even stronger than the duty spring offered by Apex, so it would seem that the parts are all availabkle from S&W to set the trigger up very similarly to an Apex DAEK, by someone who knows what they are doing.

    Enos forums here...

    http://www.brianenos.com/forums/
    Run Fast, Bite Hard!

  5. #5
    User
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Brackenfell
    Posts
    1,854

    Default Re: SD firearm modifications and the CFR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodigal View Post
    19.2. Magazines accessible to a competitor during a COF must not contain
    more that 15 rounds at the Start Signal.
    Is this being enforced locally? SB mentioned this when he was down here.
    Will ask and check at the local match on Saturday.

  6. #6

    Default Re: SD firearm modifications and the CFR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnold View Post
    Is this being enforced locally? SB mentioned this when he was down here.
    Will ask and check at the local match on Saturday.
    Yes it is enforced. You may not have more than 15 in the magazine as from the beginning of 2010 and we have been shooting it like that at club and national level like that.

    @ Prodigal...I see no reason why you should not be able to motivate say two of the same firearms...one for SD and one for Sport. You clearly go with the route that the identical one for sport is that you do not want to expose your SD firearm to serious wear and tear due to high usage in sport and that you can live with a malfunction of sort in a sporting match but not in a SD situation. Also by choosing two similar firearms you ensure peak proficiency with your SD firearm due to the use of the same type in sport. Yes mys situation is slighly different due to the fact that I have my sons Glock on my name but I have 2 x Glock 17's and 2 x Vektor SP1's. The one Vektor is Productio Legal and the other not and I motivated that the one is for Production Class and the other for Standard although their is no technical reason why I can't use the Production Legal one in Standard Guns as is and not be on the same level as the one that is not Production Legal.

    Not sure about the APEX issue with the S&W's.

  7. #7
    User
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    4,563

    Default Re: SD firearm modifications and the CFR?

    Thanks ikor for the tips on the pro parts, what I'm trying to achieve though is to use the fact that my SD gun cannot be used for my sport, therefore I 'need' a second one.

    Thanks Corne, that's the idea I was hoping to use. It seems from the advice here that it's the way to go. Thanks.

Similar Threads

  1. CZ 75 TS modifications for IPSC
    By Optimistix in forum SAPSA / IPSC Discussions
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 23-02-2016, 11:38
  2. Zastava M92 and Modifications
    By Marc05 in forum AK / Saiga Discussions
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 03-01-2015, 15:42
  3. Replies: 35
    Last Post: 19-11-2013, 09:59
  4. Variable length stock modifications??
    By Optimistix in forum Hunting Rifles
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 18-06-2012, 10:44
  5. .308 Musgrave modifications and accessories
    By Gunbully in forum Hunting Rifles
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 31-08-2011, 20:45

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •