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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Guns and ammo missing from police departments

    Quote Originally Posted by Gleock View Post
    If that's the case then I don't see how you control it, you cannot have stock issued, but not issued on paperwork somewhere.
    It's basic accounting and if it is done the way you are describing I have no doubt 9.5m rounds are missing, because the system is open for abuse.
    That is the issue with GAAP and the operational issue and use of ammo.

    1000 bought and place in main store
    250 issued for training and expendited
    250 issued for 1st line operational use which will be expendited during the next cycle
    250 issued as reseve and placed in 1st line store

    Who much ammo is in the main store?
    Who much is shot out?
    How much is accounted for as used on the computerised system?
    How much ammo is outstanding as not not used or missing?
    If 250 rounds are drawn and only 100 used the expenditure will be outstanding until the rest is used.

    How much ammo is accounted for and how much must still be accounted for?

    Try explaining this to a 22 year old that just finished studying and looking for the next big bust.

    You will find most is signed for if the auditor cares to ask. I have a standing letter on my computer that explains this shows them the calculations. Only then they understand and it is a yearly exercise.

  2. #12
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    Aug 2012
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    Default Re: Guns and ammo missing from police departments

    Quote Originally Posted by flyinggun View Post
    That is the issue with GAAP and the operational issue and use of ammo.

    1000 bought and place in main store
    250 issued for training and expendited
    250 issued for 1st line operational use which will be expendited during the next cycle
    250 issued as reseve and placed in 1st line store

    Who much ammo is in the main store?
    Who much is shot out?
    How much is accounted for as used on the computerised system?
    How much ammo is outstanding as not not used or missing?
    If 250 rounds are drawn and only 100 used the expenditure will be outstanding until the rest is used.

    How much ammo is accounted for and how much must still be accounted for?

    Try explaining this to a 22 year old that just finished studying and looking for the next big bust.

    You will find most is signed for if the auditor cares to ask. I have a standing letter on my computer that explains this shows them the calculations. Only then they understand and it is a yearly exercise.
    Okay, thanks for clarifying.
    I don't understand how such a fundamentally flawed audit report is used (or paid for) to give answers to parliamentary questions.

  3. #13
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    Dec 2015
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    Default Re: Guns and ammo missing from police departments

    Someone forward this to me

    Police loses 9,5 million rounds of ammunition in six years

    Dr Pieter Groenewald: FF Plus leader

    The South African Police Service (SAPS) has 'lost' more than 9,5 million (9 555 426) rounds of ammunition over the last six financial years. During the same period, 4 357 firearms were also lost.

    These shocking figures were revealed in an answer provided by the Minister of Police, Bheki Cele, in response to an official parliamentary question posed by Dr Pieter Groenewald, leader of the FF Plus.

    The question to the Minister was what number of firearms and how much ammunition in possession of the police were reported lost or stolen in each province respectively.

    The greatest quantity of ammunition that went missing in a single year was in the Eastern Cape where 3,2 million (3 231 406) rounds of ammunition went missing in 2016/2017.

    In the North West, 2,2 million (2 247 126) rounds of ammunition went missing during the 2014/2015 financial year according to the Minister's answer. Last year, the North West province lost nearly half a million (433 908) rounds of ammunition, that is the greatest quantity of all the provinces.

    These figures are shocking and totally unacceptable, particularly as regards the loss of ammunition. It is incomprehensible that more than 3 million rounds of ammunition can go missing in a province during a single year and nobody knows how it happened.

    No wonder violent crime is out of control. The police service seems to be the biggest provider of illegal ammunition.

    President Cyril Ramaphosa and the Minister both regularly make statements about the need for stricter control of firearms. Minister Cele himself said that the government wants to impose stricter conditions for the possession of firearms for self-defence in an attempt to reduce violent crime, especially murders.

    It, however, does not help to blame the legal owners of private firearms for crimes that are committed with firearms. The Minister's Department should get the blame. A firearm without ammunition is useless.

    The measures that the Minister provides as remedial steps in his response are no more than the standard rules and procedures, but clearly these are not being properly enforced.

    The FF Plus will request the chairperson of the Portfolio Committee for Police to urgently discuss this matter in the Committee and the relevant people must be held accountable.

    The FF Plus insists that heads must roll seeing as this amounts to gross misconduct against the people of South Africa.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Guns and ammo missing from police departments

    Below is a better report on what has happened

    Police loses 9,5 million rounds of ammunition in six years

    Dr Pieter Groenewald: FF Plus leader

    The South African Police Service (SAPS) has 'lost' more than 9,5 million (9 555 426) rounds of ammunition over the last six financial years. During the same period, 4 357 firearms were also lost.

    These shocking figures were revealed in an answer provided by the Minister of Police, Bheki Cele, in response to an official parliamentary question posed by Dr Pieter Groenewald, leader of the FF Plus.

    The question to the Minister was what number of firearms and how much ammunition in possession of the police were reported lost or stolen in each province respectively.

    The greatest quantity of ammunition that went missing in a single year was in the Eastern Cape where 3,2 million (3 231 406) rounds of ammunition went missing in 2016/2017.

    In the North West, 2,2 million (2 247 126) rounds of ammunition went missing during the 2014/2015 financial year according to the Minister's answer. Last year, the North West province lost nearly half a million (433 908) rounds of ammunition, that is the greatest quantity of all the provinces.

    These figures are shocking and totally unacceptable, particularly as regards the loss of ammunition. It is incomprehensible that more than 3 million rounds of ammunition can go missing in a province during a single year and nobody knows how it happened.

    No wonder violent crime is out of control. The police service seems to be the biggest provider of illegal ammunition.

    President Cyril Ramaphosa and the Minister both regularly make statements about the need for stricter control of firearms. Minister Cele himself said that the government wants to impose stricter conditions for the possession of firearms for self-defence in an attempt to reduce violent crime, especially murders.

    It, however, does not help to blame the legal owners of private firearms for crimes that are committed with firearms. The Minister's Department should get the blame. A firearm without ammunition is useless.

    The measures that the Minister provides as remedial steps in his response are no more than the standard rules and procedures, but clearly these are not being properly enforced.

    The FF Plus will request the chairperson of the Portfolio Committee for Police to urgently discuss this matter in the Committee and the relevant people must be held accountable.

    The FF Plus insists that heads must roll seeing as this amounts to gross misconduct against the people of South Africa.

  5. #15

    Default Re: Guns and ammo missing from police departments

    this is the simple reason they can't keep their weapons away from criminals

    watch this and try not to laugh next time you see a jmpd officer

    https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/sou...e-joburg-mall/


    https://citizen.co.za/news/news-eish...confrontation/

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Guns and ammo missing from police departments

    This is actually just sad. It's more than just lost guns. There is zero respect for any law officer.

    Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Guns and ammo missing from police departments

    It’s this culture of impunity that has built up after Marikana , the irresponsible media is what had caused the disrespect of law enforcers making they’re jobs sometimes almost impossible to carry out.

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