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  1. #1
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    Default SAPS ballistic testing damage

    My firearms were all confiscated last year after an incident involving druggies, knives and warning shots.
    I was charged. The firearms went to SAPS' storage and they all went for ballistic testing.

    The firearms where all damaged to some degree. I made repeated requests to have the oil removed from the barrels. It obviously does not work that way and could be considered tampering. I can understand that.

    My problem. False statements where made against me by the druggies, bystanders and SAPS. It cost me a lot, in more than just money.

    To save myself just a little bit of pain next time I will keep my bolts in a separate safe and keep them until a court order requests them.

    Is this legal and is this a good decision? They are mostly classic .22s. The Q is not related to actual firearms used in incidents which I would assume will be confiscated as a whole by law without court requests.

    Regards
    Uwe

  2. #2
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    Default Re: SAPS ballistic testing damage

    Jeez, that’s a rather crappy experience. I would like to know why SAPS would need to confiscate all and if your lawyers can fight this?
    "At least we do not have to fear an attack by a foreign enemy. The local one is doing splendidly." -A-R

  3. #3
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    Default Re: SAPS ballistic testing damage

    Quote Originally Posted by Meteor View Post
    My firearms were all confiscated last year after an incident involving druggies, knives and warning shots.
    I was charged. The firearms went to SAPS' storage and they all went for ballistic testing.

    The firearms where all damaged to some degree. I made repeated requests to have the oil removed from the barrels. It obviously does not work that way and could be considered tampering. I can understand that.

    My problem. False statements where made against me by the druggies, bystanders and SAPS. It cost me a lot, in more than just money.

    To save myself just a little bit of pain next time I will keep my bolts in a separate safe and keep them until a court order requests them.

    Is this legal and is this a good decision? They are mostly classic .22s. The Q is not related to actual firearms used in incidents which I would assume will be confiscated as a whole by law without court requests.

    Regards
    Uwe
    They (SAPS) must have suspected you of being unfit to possess firearms? Thats probably why they took the lot...
    As for damage, civil claim maybe?

    Im very curious about what happened but no need to share if you dont want to.

    Good luck and glad you are safe.


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  4. #4
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    Default Re: SAPS ballistic testing damage

    This sort of scenario is why I have legal cover. Hopefully it goes in your favour and you can sue the fnuts and saps in return if you are found innocent

  5. #5
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    Default Re: SAPS ballistic testing damage

    If they suspect you are unfit, they do not need to be sent for ballistics...

    Wasting resources and time for nonsense

  6. #6
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    Default Re: SAPS ballistic testing damage

    It was explained to me that SAPS confiscate firearms, as a cautionary move, from people who are charged with offences relating to stuff like physical assault, domestic violence, firearm offences etc. My firearms were seized while I was in jail.

    My case included discharge of a firearm in a built-up (residential) area, pointing of firearm and attempted murder. The statements, even from the SAPS in the charge office, all read like movies scripts.

    I followed advice on giving short to no warning statement and the statements by the "victims", "unbiased" security guards and SAPS were all they could use to build the case. I spent two nights in jail with a total of 9 people over the two days.
    The worst part of this is that the altercation only lasted about 10min but was followed by two days of no sleep or toilet with very uncomfortable company.
    I highly recommend that everyone who takes their well being seriously go out and find, meet and discuss this scenario with a/their lawyer.
    You can equate the situation with learning for a big test and going on a two day party. In the end you highly reduce your chances of defending yourself to the degree you'd like to and for obvious reasons you should not bring this sad reality up during trial.
    In the end the case was dropped because they all got sick when they had to appear. It went the same way at the SAPS 102 competency investigation.

    I brought up the idea of having my firearms returned with my lawyer stating I could not move around in my small town during work or after hours without fear of retaliation. It was met with a firm no and a threat of refusing further services.

    All SAPS stations may not be the same and/or it may not be law but all firearms confiscated by our SAPS, related and unrelated to the crime, are sent for ballistics.

    I would love to follow advice on legal aid and civil claims but that is not within my reach.

    My argument about the bolts being stored separately is that they are not regulated items and seeing as they were not classified as evidence IOW not related to the case I believe that I can hold on to them until a court orders me to surrender them. If this is true I would really like to consider it.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: SAPS ballistic testing damage

    Really sorry to hear about this mess. Hope all this will be sorted out asap.

    How did SAPS got your weapons while your'e in jail. I thought you are only one to have access or did they force a family member to open safe for them. Do they need a court document to seize FA or do they just insist you hand it to them ?

  8. #8

    Default Re: SAPS ballistic testing damage

    Who threatened to refuse you further services? Your lawyer?

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: SAPS ballistic testing damage

    Quote Originally Posted by Zuku View Post
    Really sorry to hear about this mess. Hope all this will be sorted out asap.

    How did SAPS got your weapons while your'e in jail. I thought you are only one to have access or did they force a family member to open safe for them. Do they need a court document to seize FA or do they just insist you hand it to them ?
    Thanks Zuku.
    I can not give good info on this because I know what the laws states. In short, when I went to jail, I had to decide whether to leave my keys in SAPS' hands or my mother's. She then simply complied with police orders when they arrived. We received an "invoice" for my firearms and ammunition and I haven't thought to ask whether she received a warrant.
    From my bad memory I recall something in the Criminal Procedure Act (1977) relating to warrants being unnecessary if the officer has good reasons to believe that a warrant will be issued and the issue is of an urgent matter. That or it could be standard protocol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderin' Zero View Post
    Who threatened to refuse you further services? Your lawyer?

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
    Sadly yes, we were 3 sittings in. By the eight sitting -before any witnesses or such things happened- we had an opportunity to have the case (direct translation) "devolved". To make this happen I had to buy someone a fridge. I refused and insisted on community service at the SPCA.
    The devolve included a letter which states that I myself 'do not contend any of the statements'. When my lawyer held the letter I noticed only this line and was not happy about it. I asked for time to read this letter but did not have enough time to read and make a decision so I asked in court whether I could do this. This was a very bad move, you should never speak unless spoken to in court and never ever question your lawyer. At this his assistant stood up and said they will no longer represent me.
    This was a mistake on my part and I regret it dearly. I am not clued up on court proceedings, "stories" about how it should go made this worse and this would have probably landed me on Judge Judy just for the flair.
    Myself and my parents begged them to forgive me and they luckily forgave me. Three days later they went ahead to "devolve" the case and ended the trial.
    Maar WZ jy weet mos some people are simply always in this kind of nonsense. I am very happy that it didn't turn in to a 3 year case.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: SAPS ballistic testing damage

    When I read this post I just once again confirmed that I am doing the best thing to leave this rock called Africa.
    I have never felt more unwelcome in this country as in the last few years!

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