One million gun owners shot in the foot by cops

**Codie** · 12-09-2019, 10:17

Firearm users with expired licences are in limbo after parliament sent the police back to the drawing board to redo their plan for amnesty.

The South African Police Service (SAPS) was sent back to the drawing board to redo its plan for amnesty and the draft Firearms Control Act.
Yesterday, police portfolio committee chairperson Tina Joemat-Pettersson stated there should be another firearms summit, this time with public participation, after sending the SAPS packing with the blessing of the entire committee.
Joemat-Pettersson said the matter would be discussed by the committee.
According to a question in parliament, as of July 31, 2,582,656 firearms had been licenced in SA, making for a total of 4.39 licenced firearms per 100 people.

“This has been going on for a year and we estimate between 700,000 and a million firearm owners have been affected,” Gun Owners SA (Gosa) chairperson Paul Oxley told The Citizen. “The number just grows and grows.”
With the Saps proposing self-defence being removed as a reason for possessing a firearm in its recent proposed amendment, firearm owners were becoming reluctant to hand their firearms in for destruction.
It all goes back to June last year when the Constitutional Court unanimously decided in a ruling penned by Justice Johan Froneman that firearm owners whose licences had expired must forfeit them to the state, without any compensation.
The effect of the judgment meant once a licence had expired it could not be renewed, the firearm then became illegal and had to be handed in for destruction, Counsel for Gosa Larry Marks stated in Gosa’s application for an interdict against the SAPS implementing an amendment to that effect in June 2018.
“Strangely, one could go and purchase a new firearm at considerable cost, apply for and obtain a licence for it. But people could not renew existing licences,” said Marks.
High Court in Pretoria Justice Bill Prinsloo in the course of his judgment indicated the Central Firearms Register should “be restored to a position that it is able to accept applications for renewal of licences which have expired because the period of their validity contemplated in Section 27 of the Act has expired”.
“[The Saps has] been frittering away their time trying to challenge the interdict which can’t be challenged. It’s not appealable,” Oxley said.
Institute of Race Relations project manager Terence Corrigan noted in an April article on dailyfriend.co.za that if only the police and army had the right to have firearms, society would not be safer, but more vulnerable.
“In December, the court heard an appeal by the police against Judge Prinsloo’s order. In effect, the court upheld the earlier ruling. Those holding weapons with lapsed licences could not be penalised, and guns could not be confiscated,” Corrigan said.
“What all of this denotes is egregious overreach. It is the arbitrary extension of state power, and policy-making by stealth. It extends without legal justification the boundaries of what existing legislation allows, entrusted to a system whose capacity and integrity to carry it off is doubtful.”
In his judgment, Prinsloo noted it was a “matter of national security and there is a clear and pressing danger to the security of the state and all its citizens if the court does not take the necessary measures as provided for and explained herein and also restore order and certainty”.
“When it comes to removing self-defence firearms from hundreds of thousands of people, the consequences will cause societal upheaval, chaos and risk lawlessness,” said Prinsloo.
– amandaw@citizen.co.za

https://citizen.co.za/news/south-afr...-foot-by-cops/

Is there a timeframe for SAPS/CFR to submit a new plan?

**janfred** · 12-09-2019, 11:55

By the above, ".....It all goes back to June last year when the Constitutional Court unanimously decided in a ruling penned by Justice Johan Froneman that firearm owners whose licences had expired must forfeit them to the state, without any compensation...."

Am I reading this correctly? The constitutional court ruled that firearms with expired licenses must be forfeited to the state with no compensation?

**Willie Barnard** · 12-09-2019, 12:23

What a shoddy piece of journalism!
The writer combines different opinions, different court cases, and a few facts, in a haphazard fashion, and then rounds it off with a heading that" one million gun owners had been shot in the foot by the cops!"

Could someone please report on what happened between SAPS and the Portfolio Committee?

**Vuurdoop** · 12-09-2019, 12:46

Originally Posted by Willie Barnard

What a shoddy piece of journalism!

Well... Firearms are involved, so accurate journalism is unacceptable

**Vuurdoop** · 12-09-2019, 12:47

Does anyone else remember some police chief saying (think it was last year)

That people should not hand in faulty/broken firearms for destruction?

**driepootx** · 12-09-2019, 13:38

Originally Posted by Vuurdoop

Does anyone else remember some police chief saying (think it was last year)

That people should not hand in faulty/broken firearms for destruction?

If that was really said I can see why - no criminal resale value !!!!!!!!

**Paul** · 12-09-2019, 15:02

The short version of what happened yesterday:

SAPS got handed their own heads.

Both the NCOP and the Parliamentary Portfolio Committee on Police (both led by the ANC, BTW) rejected the SAPS's request for approval for an amnesty AND their attempt to begin the process of introducing a FCA Amendment Bill out of hand.

Both on technical grounds AND because GOSA's interdict must first be discharged by the courts before we can move forward (SAPS has been avoiding dealing with our interdict and DEFINITELY doesn't want us to proceed with our main action). Parliament has seen right through the SAPS attempt to circumvent our interdict.

On a side note, the Acting ANC Whip in the National Assembly, the Honerable Jacqui Mofokeng stared across the chamber at Major General Mamotheti and asked her in an incredulous tone: "So... you seriously want to remove self-defence as a motivation for owning a firearm?"

SAPS slunk out of the chamber.

**Codie** · 12-09-2019, 15:16

Originally Posted by Paul

... On a side note, the Acting ANC Whip in the National Assembly, the Honerable Jacqui Mofokeng stared across the chamber at Major General Mamotheti and asked her in an incredulous tone: "So... you seriously want to remove self-defence as a motivation for owning a firearm?"
SAPS slunk out of the chamber.

Did she reply to his question?

**Steven001** · 12-09-2019, 15:26

Originally Posted by Codie

Did she reply to his question?

Of course she did, she humbly apologized for being a complete idiot and she then gave up her rank and assumed the rank of constable again in order to help fight crime in the field.... one could only wish...

**Paul** · 12-09-2019, 15:53

Originally Posted by Codie

Did she reply to his question?

The question was more rhetorical, and the Chair shut down the session by telling SAPS what THEY required from them in future as a democrative, participative democracy (full sight of the documents which are in the Minister's discretion only at this stage).

It was quite brutal and abrupt.

I actually turned around to a person from the Civilian Secretary who shall remain nameless and asked: "What the hell just happened?". She just shrugged.