Higher pressure for 303 on P14 action

[Ds J]

*****************You are merely asking the result of the strength of the action, as apposed to the result of the Lee lacking in strength. The cartridge in my opinion is pretty much as any other modern case. I would bet that if we had to neck the 303 case done to 30 cal, perhaps blow the shoulder out a bit call it the 30-08R it would deliver 308 about performance or better. Everything we hear say about the .303 is based on it being Lee Enfield .

Treeman, you have access to quickload. Please do the math? Take a standard 303 round and hike the pressure up to 55K and/or 60K psi? That would give a better answer.

[A-R]

*****************
You are merely asking the result of the strength of the action, as apposed to the result of the Lee lacking in strength. The cartridge in my opinion is pretty much as any other modern case. I would bet that if we had to neck the 303 case done to 30 cal, perhaps blow the shoulder out a bit call it the 30-08R it would deliver 308 about performance or better.
Everything we hear say about the .303 is based on it being Lee Enfield .

That would look like a 307 Win then. ^^^


The strength of the P14 (and P17) action is well known. That is, if in good condition and of sound metallurgy. A-Square built lots of big bores on them and the actions can take it.

The weakest link in the rifle in question is the cartridge case. If you go over safe limits, the case will give first. So that is the part to watch.

We are of course assuming the head space to be tight. If not, have it corrected first. This may not be so easy, as the barrel may have to be removed and re-installed. It was likely installed more than 100 years ago and well tightened back then. Removing it in tact, without damaging the action, may be a challenge.

I have witnessed a shooter using a custom target rifle, in 303 British, built on a P14 action. The rifle shot superbly. Nothing wrong with the caliber of used on a rifle with tight tolerances.

[tcbc]

I had a target rifle in . 308 built on a p14 action and it shot superbly and I won a few completions with it. The barrel was a specially selected blank, originally intended for converting Bren guns from 303 to .308.

It shot very well with issued ammo, however once we started reloading our own target Ammo, it couldn’t really compete. In addition, a gunsmith warned me against using trying to match the velocities being achieved by other competitors using more modern actions. He also warned me that while P14 actions looked like P17’s, the P17 was made by a variety of USA manufacturers, with variable metallurgy and quality. My take away from that was that a P14 was a capable action, but I wouldn’t chase extreme velocity.

In addition, while not pertinent here, the P14 is hard to pack effectively. The action is quite open (from its top clip loading style) and flexes under load. Good enough for hunting but a good RSA action is better for strength and accuracy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[treeman]

Treeman, you have access to quickload. Please do the math? Take a standard 303 round and hike the pressure up to 55K and/or 60K psi? That would give a better answer.

****************
I see QL lists the 303 Epps as 49000 PSI - same as 303 British ( that Enfield fear again)
They also list a 303 sporting at 47800 PSI.
24 inch barrel
58000 PSI at 2667 fps launching a 174 RN bullet
49800 PSI at 2754 fps ..................150 SP bullet
-- the Epps will give you a 150 gr bullet at 2807 fps and 48733 PSI
58000 psi will deliver same bullet at 2955 fps

dunno if thats what you wanted -

[Ds J]

****************
I see QL lists the 303 Epps as 49000 PSI - same as 303 British ( that Enfield fear again)
They also list a 303 sporting at 47800 PSI.
24 inch barrel
58000 PSI at 2667 fps launching a 174 RN bullet
49800 PSI at 2754 fps ..................150 SP bullet
-- the Epps will give you a 150 gr bullet at 2807 fps and 48733 PSI
58000 psi will deliver same bullet at 2955 fps

dunno if thats what you wanted -

Thanks a lot for your troubles!
Using the data from Somchem one can at least make a rough comparison to start somewhere:

308:

max speed approximately 2800fps with 150gr, and
max speed approximately 2450fps with 180gr
(supposing that these are close to max pressure)

30-06:

max speed approximately 2950 for 150gr, and
max speed approximately 2700fps with 180gr
(supposing that these are close to max pressure)

It simply means that one can theoretically push a 303 well into 30-06 territory if the equipment allows for it. It would take some money, trouble and time but it is doable for someone who wants to do the experiment. It also means that a P-14 owner should be able to reload to slightly higher pressures to get to a next node if he wishes to do so.

All in all, it would be better to simply buy a standard 30-06 or 300 if someone wants to shoot a faster bullet. At least I understand why it has been said that it is doable.

Thanks a lot for everyone's contributions.

[A-R]

I had a target rifle in . 308 built on a p14 action and it shot superbly and I won a few completions with it. The barrel was a specially selected blank, originally intended for converting Bren guns from 303 to .308.

It shot very well with issued ammo, however once we started reloading our own target Ammo, it couldn’t really compete. In addition, a gunsmith warned me against using trying to match the velocities being achieved by other competitors using more modern actions. He also warned me that while P14 actions looked like P17’s, the P17 was made by a variety of USA manufacturers, with variable metallurgy and quality. My take away from that was that a P14 was a capable action, but I wouldn’t chase extreme velocity.

In addition, while not pertinent here, the P14 is hard to pack effectively. The action is quite open (from its top clip loading style) and flexes under load. Good enough for hunting but a good RSA action is better for strength and accuracy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

All P14 and P17 rifles and actions were made in the US. Besides the differences between manufacturers, I can't see how one would be better than the other.

[treeman]

I do not understand you ?
If you have a P14 - you can shoot it at higher pressures - no experimenting or mods, you will have a old rifle comparable with a 308 or 7 x 57.
Any thing you do to it is as with any rifle your choice.
Ask at the range constantly till some one shows you a P14 on a modern platform then ask its velocities etc

[driepootx]

You guys seem to have missed my post on P.2 where I gave actual figures that bullets are loaded to.

[Ds J]

I do not understand you ?
If you have a P14 - you can shoot it at higher pressures - no experimenting or mods, you will have an old rifle comparable with a 308 or 7 x 57.
Any thing you do to it is as with any rifle your choice.
Ask at the range constantly till some one shows you a P14 on a modern platform then ask its velocities etc

I know a guy who has a P-14 303 and he wants to play around with it. Since I read about uploading the P-14 303 maaaany moons ago, and have heard/read some rumours since, I simply asked. It does not help to even think about playing with it when it is a stupid idea from the start. On the other hand, why drive a vehicle at 80kph when it can comfortably and safely be driven at 110kph?

You guys seem to have missed my post on P.2 where I gave actual figures that bullets are loaded to.

Skuus Oom! Saliweni

[treeman]

You guys seem to have missed my post on P.2 where I gave actual figures that bullets are loaded to.

***********
post 15, saw that, precisely what I am saying - its a cartridge that was governed (limited ) by its original rifle - same as 40/70 Gov and those 30/20 type cartridges