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  1. #1

    Default SAPS Latest harrassment tactic

    My wife's nephew has been told that his licences won't be renewed unless he provides proof of attendance at the range in the form of copies of the attendance register, his personal log book or targets. I warned about this possibility years ago, and not long ago my club secretary issued a warning that it was to be expected. It is of course nothing more than another creative SAPS tactic to refuse renewals.

    Quite aside from the moral/ethical aspect of SAPS inventing its own rules again, the practical problem for us is that, because there is no such requirement in the Act or the regs, not many of us have kept log books (although some of my club members have been doing so) and not all ranges have kept attendance registers, so many licence holders won't be able to prove range attendance.

    I should be OK because I can prove several years of RO duty, and quite often if the last member or visitor has left the range by 16h00 or so, I can get in a bit of shooting myself. The guys who will really be in trouble are the many who join our club for the sole purpose of licence but never shoot. At the first implementation of the FCA we had a flood of applications and our membership shot up from about 100 to about 500. It is now about 250 because those who joined to get a licence don't renew membership until their next licence renewal. Some of them are known to me and I personally warned them that this risk might one day materialise.

    My wife's nephew has worked off shore for the last twenty years, and has therefore been able to shoot only on his annual holiday in SA. He has told SAPS that, but has also told them that what they demand is unlawful. That's the sort of courage we need. Anyhow, I haven't seen any mention of this, but following close after the rifle barrel matter, SAPS has obviously identified this as an easy method of dispossessing many of us.

    My club (Somerset West Pistol Club) has an attendance register. Nothing fancy, we require only name, ID and whether the shooter is a member or visitor, and the latter is only for charging the visitor fee. The real purpose of the register is that it serves as indemnity. I don't know for how long we keep them, but we can extract the names from those we have, and thus provide some proof of attendance for those whose names are in there. Not that I want to do anything to support SAPS harassment, but at least we have that if it comes to it.

    I recommend that all shooters keep a personal log book. We have a few members who do so, and get the RO to sign it off on the day. As I said, I'm probably covered by my RO duty, but I'll be keeping a log book from now on.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: SAPS Latest harrassment tactic

    I assume this is only one DFO?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: SAPS Latest harrassment tactic

    Blurring of the lines between casual and dedicated shooters?

  4. #4

    Default Re: SAPS Latest harrassment tactic

    Thank you for the post Dick. I can add that a friend of mine is due for renewal of his S13 licence. The DFO refused to take his application without Proof of DSS and Paid up membership. Even after trying to explain the DFO refused and said : " It's becasue you have nore than 4 Firearms"

    What utter BS !!!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: SAPS Latest harrassment tactic

    Killzone I applied for permission to keep more than 200 rounds of ammo for my Section 13 firearm, as I use it for sport shooting as well.

    Pretoria declined my application as I am apparently not allowed to use my SD firearm for sports shooting!
    This despite each section of the FCA stating you can use a licenced firearm for any lawful purpose, e.g.:
    “13.(4) A firearm in respect of which a licence has been issued in terms of this section may be used where it is safe to use the firearm and for a lawful purpose.”

    It seems they will retch any BS when it comes to decline reasons.

  6. #6

    Default Re: SAPS Latest harrassment tactic

    WTF !?!??!

  7. #7
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    Default Re: SAPS Latest harrassment tactic

    Quote Originally Posted by Carbine View Post
    Killzone I applied for permission to keep more than 200 rounds of ammo for my Section 13 firearm, as I use it for sport shooting as well.

    Pretoria declined my application as I am apparently not allowed to use my SD firearm for sports shooting!
    This despite each section of the FCA stating you can use a licenced firearm for any lawful purpose, e.g.:
    “13.(4) A firearm in respect of which a licence has been issued in terms of this section may be used where it is safe to use the firearm and for a lawful purpose.”

    It seems they will retch any BS when it comes to decline reasons.
    That there my good man, is a perfect reason/ excuse you can use to purchase another handgun

  8. #8
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    Default Re: SAPS Latest harrassment tactic

    I'm assuming this is the Somerset West DFO...?
    Having had first hand experience with them and their made up rules this would not surprise me in the least.

    Someone really needs to take them to task!!
    Thus was actually done a few years back via a lawyers intervention, but it would seem that they are once again making up the rules as they feel like it.

    I was recently told by them that unless I produce A4 full colour photocopies of inside & outside of my safe (incl. Pics of the rawl bolts) my application would not be accepted.
    Oh, and I needed to initial each page of my motivation...

    And the cycle continues...

  9. #9
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    Default Re: SAPS Latest harrassment tactic

    Asking the firearm community to start doing something just because one DFO has made a rule is exactly the way we get into the mess of having to do stupid things.

    Suddenly people start doing this and handing in log books with their DFO, then gunshots start recommending it, then national bodies start recommending. After a while most DFOs start demanding it and it ends up on the checklist.

    I might be taking the above to the extreme. While I assume this is coming from a good place, giving advice based on one account close to you and then asking people to make it their norm, is not that wise in my opinion.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: SAPS Latest harrassment tactic

    With regards having to initial each page of your motivation, I have done so with each application I have done.
    Proof that you have been through each page, are aware of the content and it is your page being submitted.

    The company I use checks all is signed before I submit.

    With regards the safe pics I always include B&W photos of my empty safe to streamline the process and minimise delays should a safe inspection possibly be requested.
    First time applicants are usually flagged for physical safe inspection.

    Keep copies of the safe internal "box" with fixing bolts visible, door open but locking mechanism visible and a pic with door thickness visible.
    This will usually make them happy enough and accept that your safe is adequate and suitable.

    An oversight for all is how do they know it is your safe at your address...

    First application for some is sticky, thereafter SAPS accepts your safe is correct.
    The photos of your safe with further applications ensures and satisfies compliance.

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