A Conservationist's Cry

[Pirate]

I think part and parcel of this whole "debate" is acceptable that (referring to Messor's last paragraph above) "preservation" and "capital" have become inextricably linked with each other. If we pine for the days gone by where animals roam free on land owned by no-one (or owned by the state, which is the same thing), to be persued at leasure, the we live in a twisted dream, since "modern" experience has shown that in areas like that game gets poached to near or total extinction. This is just the way it is, like it or not, deal with it and accept that for any wild animal to survive it will have to earn its keep. Giving wild animals value is exactly what prevented many species from going extinct a century ago, and I would still rather be able to share this earth with as many diverse species as possible (possibly excluding horse louse flies, if I understand TStone correctly.. ) and pay some premium for it that to only see pictures of them on the internet, or visit a stuffed skin in a museum, which can never be more than a shadow of the magnificence of the real live animal.

Regarding that last point: don't underestimate the privilege of having opportunities to BE WITH these animals in an environment which at least approximates their ancient/natural conditions. If you've ever walked into one of the big museums of the world cities, and experienced the incongruity of how one big animal mount is placed completely out of context next to another, a wrenching certainty that "this is not right... I know better" then I doubt you'll feel that linking preservation and capital is too much to ask.

[TStone]

There are two conservation models that, caters to hunters and work. The game have commercial value and belong to farmers, as in South Africa, and the people who get to hunt them are mostly the more affluent part of the population and foreigners OR the game belong to the state and (theoretically) anyone can hunt, within limits determined by nature conservation agencies (the state) and at a small fee that almost any working person can afford, as in North America.

The former works fairly well in South Africa although there are certainly abuses. The second work well in the USA and Canada although there are also abuses. The second will not work in South Africa and will certainly lead to the extermination of all species, with the possible exception of the lousy horse fly.

[Davidc]

Not sure how accurate the rest of the video is but the inset about Kenya is incorrect. There are plenty lions in Kenya, hell one even roamed the streets of Nairobi a year or two ago. And the amount of free roaming game on state and private land is a lot. Driving from Nairobi to Nakuru you see Giraffe, antelope, zebra and baboons next to the road.
Free roaming game at all the lodges at Lake Naivasha. I even have pics of local fishermen in the water meters away from hippos with calves.


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[Dimitri]

Not sure how accurate the rest of the video is but the inset about Kenya is incorrect. There are plenty lions in Kenya, hell one even roamed the streets of Nairobi a year or two ago. And the amount of free roaming game on state and private land is a lot. Driving from Nairobi to Nakuru you see Giraffe, antelope, zebra and baboons next to the road.
Free roaming game at all the lodges at Lake Naivasha. I even have pics of local fishermen in the water meters away from hippos with calves.


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https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0163249

[Davidc]

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0163249

Well seeing I lived there for 2 years I can only comment on what I saw with my own eyes. I am not talking about game reserves or parks but government and private ground that we passed when traveling.

Of course I also saw a lot of game from my hotel that I stayed over at when flying in and out. We stayed at Ole Serini that borders the Nairobi game reserve.


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[Messor]

All good points made here.

@Messor, are you then saying let's forego the "effort" of game farming? I can't make out if you see it as part of "conservation" or if you are bemoaning it. You are, in my opinion, quite correct in the most technical reasoning that game farming/farmers are not there for conservation only. ECONOMICS rule like you stated.

Just trying to figure out if you are pro/anti the effort that goes into game farming.

Not pro or anti anything, pro and anti in this day and age often means people look for a specific narrative and drive it without logic or reason. I was merely pondering the thing that is the human condition, humans often debate fiercely about things, in this case preservation/conservation, when it's a 100% fact that all problems are man made. Over the millennia several human cultures lived in harmony with the land, and they were all destroyed by other humans that only see profit in all their undertakings.

I don't know, as I said to Dimitri I am just speaking my mind, thinking out loud, a game farm is definitely prettier than a corn field.
Que sera sera...

[Davidc]

Well seeing I lived there for 2 years until mid 2019 I can only comment on what I saw with my own eyes. I am not talking about game reserves or parks but government and private ground that we passed when traveling.

Of course I also saw a lot of game from my hotel that I stayed over at when flying in and out. We stayed at Ole Serini that borders the Nairobi game reserve.


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[mtaute]

Not pro or anti anything, pro and anti in this day and age often means people look for a specific narrative and drive it without logic or reason. I was merely pondering the thing that is the human condition, humans often debate fiercely about things, in this case preservation/conservation, when it's a 100% fact that all problems are man made. Over the millennia several human cultures lived in harmony with the land, and they were all destroyed by other humans that only see profit in all their undertakings.

I don't know, as I said to Dimitri I am just speaking my mind, thinking out loud, a game farm is definitely prettier than a corn field.
Que sera sera...

Deep pondering for a Friday....

Que Sera Sera.

[Againstthegrains]

To tell you story about why I started hunting will illustrate a few of Dimitri's points.

I am a biologist by training, and was always a bit of a "greeny." I came from a family that did not hunt, and did not think much of it. I would blissfully visit our national parks and never once thought about how some of the small parks sustain themselves. My passion at the time was birding, and I aspired to join the 800 club. Now the key with birding, is that once you have seen the common generalists, basically bird species that can adapt well to various and changing environments, you are left with specialist species that are those that are only found among certain vegetation, habitats or climate zones. That's what they require to live, and they cannot live anywhere else. In order to see certain specialist species you had to travel across the length and breadth of the country to see them. I then married an awesome woman, and discovered that her family was full of wing shooters and hunters. I landed up going to a few hunting farms and lodges, and to my great surprise, these places contained massive tracts of land in perfect condition, including many specialist habitats in which I saw numerous birds for the first time. They were the key to bird conservation in South Africa. Without these well preserved pieces of privately owned land, bird life in SA would be in trouble. I say the same for all the plants, fungi, bacteria, insects, and small animals that also shared these habitats. To cut a long story short, after asking a lot of questions, and careful observations, I realised that for private land owners, cash is king, and if it pays, it stays. Hence, I am a now a very pragmatic greeny, and it gives me some satisfaction, knowing that harvesting wild animals for organic meat is contributing towards preserving biodiversity

[gertjie87]

The first question anyone that calls themself a conservationist should ask is why??? Why conserve anything? Is there really a point to conserving anything? And if you can answer that question honestly only then can you start putting together a conservation strategy or start forming opinions about conservation strategies.