Hunting dog puppy training - Book recommendations and advice

[Socrates]

I see you are based in Germany? I assume the dog is going to be purchased and used there? The nice thing about Europe is that there is a decent genetic pool of fringe breeds which have been dutifully maintained and continue to be worked.

As an 'All-Purpose' dog, there is a very good reason why the GSP is so popular. As far as hunting goes (feather & fur) there isn't much it doesn't do. They are a bit more "hunt crazy" and may drive you a little nuts in the off-season once they get switched on. But they are very good all rounders and wonderful fun to live with. Vizslas (both std and wirehaired) are also very capable, but a little harder to train and they usually start putting things together once they get to 2 years old. Munsterlanders (small and Large) are not that popular in SA, but there is good working stock in Europe. The ones I have seen need a bit of coaxing to get into water retrieves, but this may have been isolated as I haven't seen a lot of them, and as mentioned the breed is sparse in SA. They are very popular with falconers because of their softer nature and shorter range, they are wonderful in the house.

If pointing is not a prerequisite, you might consider a Springer. They will pretty much cover all the bases you want, and they also will not run as wide as the traditional pointing breeds (EP's and GSP's in particular) - English pointers and Setters are the Ferrari's of bird dogs, and not much will match them as specific pointing breeds go, but they do not take to water well in the colder months - the American bred ones are more likely to be better at retrieving. If your heart is set on a Munsty, there is little reason to look for something else, find some good working stock and build up a good network of people who you can bounce ideas and training off, and just jump in.

It's a fantastic game, everyone who has been in the game for any length of time will have their favourite breeds and ones that suit best what they do, but the wonderful thing about bird dogs is that they're all special in their own way, it's the sport that keeps on giving.

The Germans are dog people, there's no shortage of good working dogs. Most of the advertisements for pups from the hunting breeds state they will only sell to hunters.

This thing snowballed from the wife getting a pup (Altdeutsch Hütehunde Strobel), and we receiving advice that two dogs are better than one. :)

I've been thinking about it off and on for the last couple of months, and now seems like a good time as any to get into the game.

I looked at a couple of Springers, but they are way out of our budget. We both like labradors, but the ones we find in our price range are crosses with other breeds. The labs and golden retrievers from working stock is also way above out price range.

I'll have another look at the GSP. There are quite a few available within our budget.

What are things I should consider when it comes to feeding the pup and adult? Are there certain nutritional requirements for working dogs?

[Springer]

The Germans are dog people, there's no shortage of good working dogs. Most of the advertisements for pups from the hunting breeds state they will only sell to hunters.

This thing snowballed from the wife getting a pup (Altdeutsch Hütehunde Strobel), and we receiving advice that two dogs are better than one. :)

I've been thinking about it off and on for the last couple of months, and now seems like a good time as any to get into the game.

I looked at a couple of Springers, but they are way out of our budget. We both like labradors, but the ones we find in our price range are crosses with other breeds. The labs and golden retrievers from working stock is also way above out price range.

I'll have another look at the GSP. There are quite a few available within our budget.

What are things I should consider when it comes to feeding the pup and adult? Are there certain nutritional requirements for working dogs?

I'm sure you'll find a good choice of dogs to choose from. Not too sure about the '2 dogs are better than 1' advice, especially as (I think) this is your first dog? I might suggest getting a second dog after a year or two once you've found what works for you, from a training and development perspective. But do what works best for you and your direct environment.
As far as nutritional requirements go, this is a minefield and you'll get a wide range of opinion. Working dogs do require more nutrition management, depending on their work load and you'll get a lot of opinion to sift through once you open that can of worms here. Once again, I'd suggest find something that works for you and fits your views. I'm not going to get into what has worked for me over the years, as there are more opinions on this issue than there are breeds of gundogs, and we'll get sidetracked by many people. I'd love to hear what you decide on, and I wish you all the best in your journey.

[Socrates]

I'm sure you'll find a good choice of dogs to choose from. Not too sure about the '2 dogs are better than 1' advice, especially as (I think) this is your first dog? I might suggest getting a second dog after a year or two once you've found what works for you, from a training and development perspective. But do what works best for you and your direct environment.
As far as nutritional requirements go, this is a minefield and you'll get a wide range of opinion. Working dogs do require more nutrition management, depending on their work load and you'll get a lot of opinion to sift through once you open that can of worms here. Once again, I'd suggest find something that works for you and fits your views. I'm not going to get into what has worked for me over the years, as there are more opinions on this issue than there are breeds of gundogs, and we'll get sidetracked by many people. I'd love to hear what you decide on, and I wish you all the best in your journey.

My wife is taking responsibility for the one pup. It's traditional herding dog breed. I'll be taking responsibility for the hunting dog. The 'two dog' advice was based on the fact that it's good if they have company during the day. We still work full days, and it get lonely. Our landlord lives next door, so dogs barking the whole day are not in our best intrest.

I'll hear tomorrow if I'm getting the Small Münsterländer pup.

Thank you for your advice. I'll defnitely have more questions as time goes by.

[treeman]

Not what you asked, but you tube is a source that exceeds your ability to use, professionals talking all the way through to back woods rednecks training coon hounds.
Every possible angle and approach is covered and offered in video.
Google search will also keep you stuck in forums and threads for longer than you care to be. I was in your position a few years back and found more than I could assimilate on the net.

[Socrates]

I looked over some of the older post concenting hunting dogs last night. IIRC it was Springer who posed that bonding with the dog is the first order of business, and the dog needs to see me as the origin of all good things.

I have some other questions concerning this:

1. How do the expierienced people go about it with regards to ground rules in the house? It's a done deal that the dogs will live with the family inside the house, but they are not allowed on the couches and beds. With Europe being constantly wet, and muddy it's already a mission to keep the things clean when the kids come from outside.

Are rules like that realistic in terms of the relationship I need to build with the pup?

2. These cages are used to keep the pups in the first couple of months, until they are house trained and for disciplining purposes. It seems counter productive in terms of building a relationship with the pup. https://www.amazon.de/dp/B00QAVNWSK/...s%2C171&sr=8-5

Is this the way it's done? The whole cage idea goes against my intial instinct. It feels counter productive to relationship building.

[Luker]

Point no 2 is solves point no 1.

These cages are normally referred to as crates. All my dogs have been crate trained and many times
their crate is their favoured place to be.

My crates are made of canvass with plastic windows that can open and close.

Pups sleep 95 % of the day and get used to a crate very quickly. I put mine beside my bed
for the first six months. They are also the best way to transport to the vet, training classes
etc.

I woke my pups every hour to teach them to use the grass outside as their toilet. They very
quickly get the hang of it.

Feed your dog yourself if it is practical for you. Any dog swears his/her allegiance to the hand that feeds them.
Except cats. They swear allegiance to the one with the can of tuna.

I know it sounds harsh but your family must understand it is your dog. You make the rules when it comes to
what they can and cant do. For example, if you play tug of war with your dog he will be loathe to give you a dummy or bird
he has retrieved during training.

You want to be his one and only hero. I taught my family the correct way to enforce the sit, stay and come commands using
a clicker. Worked like a bomb. Our 2 Mini Schnauzers took to clicker training at ages 9 and 10. I would never have believed it
possible. 10 minutes per dog per day for about a week was all it took.

[Socrates]

Point no 2 is solves point no 1.

These cages are normally referred to as crates. All my dogs have been crate trained and many times
their crate is their favoured place to be.

My crates are made of canvass with plastic windows that can open and close.

Pups sleep 95 % of the day and get used to a crate very quickly. I put mine beside my bed
for the first six months. They are also the best way to transport to the vet, training classes
etc.

I woke my pups every hour to teach them to use the grass outside as their toilet. They very
quickly get the hang of it.

Feed your dog yourself if it is practical for you. Any dog swears his/her allegiance to the hand that feeds them.
Except cats. They swear allegiance to the one with the can of tuna.

I know it sounds harsh but your family must understand it is your dog. You make the rules when it comes to
what they can and cant do. For example, if you play tug of war with your dog he will be loathe to give you a dummy or bird
he has retrieved during training.

You want to be his one and only hero. I taught my family the correct way to enforce the sit, stay and come commands using
a clicker. Worked like a bomb. Our 2 Mini Schnauzers took to clicker training at ages 9 and 10. I would never have believed it
possible. 10 minutes per dog per day for about a week was all it took.

Thank you!

[Socrates]

Point no 2 is solves point no 1.

These cages are normally referred to as crates. All my dogs have been crate trained and many times
their crate is their favoured place to be.

My crates are made of canvass with plastic windows that can open and close.

Pups sleep 95 % of the day and get used to a crate very quickly. I put mine beside my bed
for the first six months. They are also the best way to transport to the vet, training classes
etc.

I woke my pups every hour to teach them to use the grass outside as their toilet. They very
quickly get the hang of it.

Feed your dog yourself if it is practical for you. Any dog swears his/her allegiance to the hand that feeds them.
Except cats. They swear allegiance to the one with the can of tuna.

I know it sounds harsh but your family must understand it is your dog. You make the rules when it comes to
what they can and cant do. For example, if you play tug of war with your dog he will be loathe to give you a dummy or bird
he has retrieved during training.

You want to be his one and only hero. I taught my family the correct way to enforce the sit, stay and come commands using
a clicker. Worked like a bomb. Our 2 Mini Schnauzers took to clicker training at ages 9 and 10. I would never have believed it
possible. 10 minutes per dog per day for about a week was all it took.

I have a follow up question: Will there be a benift for the pup in having a covered crate as opposed to an open crate in the context of us having a 2 and 4 year old in the house?

In terms of building a bond, do I move the crate with us in the sleeping room in the evenings, or do I give the pup a dedicate space in the house for all hours of the day and night?

[Luker]

I preferred the covered crate, but as I said you can open and close the windows.

I have attached an image with the front open. The black bundle at the back is my Springer Spaniel
aged about 2 months. A soft blanket and his toys kept him more than happy.

The canvass crate is very light so I put him next to me at my desk, watching tv etc and then next to
my bed at night. At about 6 months I put him and his crate outside in the pool room with the other
dogs. He was allowed in the house after that until bedtime but he would stick to me like glue. Still does.

Attachment 31594

His favourite place under my desk in the summer

Attachment 31593

Commandeered my desk chair at every opportunity

Attachment 31595

[Socrates]

I preferred the covered crate, but as I said you can open and close the windows.

I have attached an image with the front open. The black bundle at the back is my Springer Spaniel
aged about 2 months. A soft blanket and his toys kept him more than happy.

The canvass crate is very light so I put him next to me at my desk, watching tv etc and then next to
my bed at night. At about 6 months I put him and his crate outside in the pool room with the other
dogs. He was allowed in the house after that until bedtime but he would stick to me like glue. Still does.

Attachment 31594

His favourite place under my desk in the summer

Attachment 31593

Commandeered my desk chair at every opportunity

Attachment 31595

Much appriciated.

I'm quite restless at the moment. I was suppose to hear today if I got the pup or not. The waiting is driving me insane.

Do you have specific breed you favour?