The role of the revolver as a self defense handgun - By ikor

**tingriman** · 09-12-2009, 15:30

Originally Posted by gunsports

Glocks break, or haven't you heard?

yeh, but mine is neither .40 nor .357 grn1

cheers,
tingriman

**gunsports** · 09-12-2009, 15:53

Anybody ever bothered to figure out why these Glocks disassemble themselves do spectacularly? Surely there must be a reason and this must be addressed, and suspect guns recalled and refitted?

**Analyst** · 08-03-2010, 21:56

Good article! It does seem odd that many people consider a .38 snub to be the quintessential beginner/lady's firearm. Limited capacity, fairly snappy recoil, short sight radius, tricky reloading...quite specialised if you ask me!

**Theunsb** · 01-06-2010, 22:28

Murphys law dictates when sheet happens pull the trigger. I detest attending a good guys funeral due to stupid hero (negotiate and do not use force) behaviour because of some political based bulldust or upbringing. Have a gun and practice. This is the wild west at its best.

Dinner dates 7.65 pistol slimmed and one up Cor-Bon loads. Travel to friends in town or far away high capacity 40 or 45 pistol backed up by 357 or 44 Magnum.
Hiking 38 x 5 shot snubby for real close up work. Carry 9mm in SOB.
Home 12 bore backed by everything including a few knifes.
Call me whatever but what I can conceal on me I will take along. Never take the gentlemans stand of sorry you have knife now I will have to put my gun away to equalize the force according to law.
The best gun is the one you can carry on your person 365 days per annum not the cannon in the safe at home.

**ikor** · 02-06-2010, 00:38

Originally Posted by Theunsb

Murphys law dictates when sheet happens pull the trigger. I detest attending a good guys funeral due to stupid hero (negotiate and do not use force) behaviour because of some political based bulldust or upbringing. Have a gun and practice. This is the wild west at its best.

Dinner dates 7.65 pistol slimmed and one up Cor-Bon loads. Travel to friends in town or far away high capacity 40 or 45 pistol backed up by 357 or 44 Magnum.
Hiking 38 x 5 shot snubby for real close up work. Carry 9mm in SOB.
Home 12 bore backed by everything including a few knifes.
Call me whatever but what I can conceal on me I will take along. Never take the gentlemans stand of sorry you have knife now I will have to put my gun away to equalize the force according to law.
The best gun is the one you can carry on your person 365 days per annum not the cannon in the safe at home.

Great...if you have a half dozen or more options. If not...well...you use what you have, which may be a G17 or 19 for everything.

**corriedewilde** · 14-01-2011, 23:53

I agree with Gunsport's reply to a well written article. The revolvers strong point is its simplicity. Everybody is not sport shooters who shoot thousands of rounds with one pistol until the operation become second nature.

If a revolver falls. chances are very good that the crane will bend and leave the revolver inoperable. In this respect a pistol is stronger.

Firepower? Until fifteen years ago, if you didn't win a fight after two rounds, you were not going to win it. In the new SA six armed attackers will assault you and you friends during a barbeque behind your house. If an early warning system help to get the woman and children out of harm's way, it becomes a real fire-fight. If not, there can not be any fight or the families will be casualties.

The .357 is brilliant as a manstopper. but have the same disadvantage as the .45 and maybe the .40. There are to much penetration due to the heavy bullets. You wil be glad to stop your assailant, but not for long if you killed an innocent behind your attacker as well.

**BigT** · 15-01-2011, 08:05

Manstopper?

Penetration is a factor of bullet design even more than mass.

A 125gr JHP has very controlled penetration ( in fact a bit to shallow fore) much less in fact than a 115gr 9mm FMJ and in fact less than most 9mm 124gr JHP's.

Almost all 40 155-180gr and 45 185-230 jhp's have ideal penetration. And while heavier a 230gr 45 FMJ has far less penetration than a 158gr SWC.

I don't think if "you can't sort it in two your not going to sort it" was ever a reality just bollocks okes talked around the braai.

---------- Post added at 08:01 ---------- Previous post was at 08:00 ----------

Manstopper?

Penetration is a factor of bullet design even more than mass.

A 125gr JHP has very controlled penetration ( in fact a bit to shallow fore) much less in fact than a 115gr 9mm FMJ and in fact less than most 9mm 124gr JHP's.

Almost all 40 155-180gr and 45 185-230 jhp's have ideal penetration. And while heavier a 230gr 45 FMJ has far less penetration than a 158gr SWC.

I don't think if "you can't sort it in two your not going to sort it" was ever a reality just bollocks okes talked around the braai.

---------- Post added at 08:05 ---------- Previous post was at 08:01 ----------

BTW far more people are injured by misses than overpenetrating bullets.

---------- Post added at 08:05 ---------- Previous post was at 08:05 ----------

BTW far more people are injured by misses than overpenetrating bullets.

**corriedewilde** · 15-01-2011, 12:15

BigT I agree that bullet design is a small factor in penetration because it increases the area. But penetration is a factor of momemtum and the formula for momentum is Mom = m x v (mass times velocity) So the only element that would seriously influence penetration other than velocity and mass, is if the head you shoot into is made of rock. For this reason Eleminator (Sentinel) bullets are very light 78gr - 9mmP, 92gr - .45 ACP. It was also proven the 90% of 230gr HP .45 never open up in the target, as the speed of the .45 bullet is just to slow. A wadcutter/semi-wadcutter will then do much more damage. Refer to FA Hunds' book 'Small Arms and Balastics" were he prove it by shooting into balastic gelatine and photograph it.

Quote: I don't think if "you can't sort it in two your not going to sort it" was ever a reality just bollocks okes talked around the braai.
I take note of your opinion. But the single armed robber of before intimidated by being the guy with the firearm. If his victim started shooting in defense he either die or leave in a hurry, before the victim need to start spray and pray. Of late the robbers are beter prepared and are aware of the fact that even a well prepared combat shooter can not take out six targets in positions around him, before one of them hurt him.
Only a idiot will think he can out-draw a guy who have a pistol aimed at him.

You are correct in saying that misses in self defence is a problem. If you were in the position before, you will appreciate that the adrinalin flush at such at time, will switch off you fine motor control. You will be shaking involantary and you eyes won't focus properly. That 'buck fever' could make a target shooter miss at 5 m.

**Thorkind** · 15-01-2011, 12:36

Originally Posted by corriedewilde

It was also proven the 90% of 230gr HP .45 never open up in the target, as the speed of the .45 bullet is just to slow.

How was it proven? This is totally opposite to the FBI testing of numerous .45ACP loads: http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/45acp.htm

Your info sounds dated.

**Wanderin' Zero** · 15-01-2011, 12:56

Originally Posted by Corné

Thanks for that one...very interesting. It is difficult to see from the photos but on close inspection is does look like the two barrels are off centre. My initial observation was that it fired only one at a time from two different barrels but I can see that it could fire two barrels seperately or maybe one at a time.

Corne, no it fires one shot at a time. Look at the timing notches on the rear of the cylinder and count them - there are 20, as many as there are shot holes.

Incidentally, have you ever heard of a semi-automatic revolver? Self cocking so you have all (or similar) trigger benefits of a semi-automatic pistol. Has a safety catch too. Google Webley-Fosberry and you'll see it. They were quite popular in the early part of the last century with sports shooters and IIRC one was sold at auction here last year. I sometimes wish I'd bought it. That said, in today's world in the face of semi-automatic pistols I'm not sure its anything other than a technically interesting bit of history.[COLOR="grey"]

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Ikor, I think it's a great write up! Thank you for that!

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Originally Posted by corriedewilde

Only a idiot will think he can out-draw a guy who have a pistol aimed at him.

Um, Corrie you might be mistaken on that score. It depends upon the circumstances. In a time of my life when I lawfully and under orders carried na unconcealed pistol in a bikini holster with no top strap and with one up, full cock and safety on we proved that in that setup about 80% of the time the guy whose gun was still holstered could get it out and fire a shot before the other guy would squeeze the trigger. We determined this by having two blokes facing each other about two or so meters apart, offset. One guy would have his gun in his hand, loaded, safety off, finger on the trigger and pointed straight ahead. His instruction was to fire a shot as soon as he saw the other guy move for his gun. The other guy would have his gun holstered as mentioned earlier. About 80% of the time the second guy would get it out and get a shot off first. Like me, you probably won't believe it until you prove it yourself. BUT (and its a big but) getting a gun out from a concealed "safe" holster is probably a lot slower (I have never tried to time the sort of difference involved) and that may prove to have a very different outcome.