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  1. #11
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    Default Re: .22lr Izhmash or Bruno

    Quote Originally Posted by DBSomeone View Post
    What I think Shooty meant was not to get one of the recently produced Brunos, but back when the .22lr Bruno rifle was being manufactured under the supervision of CZ. This was an agreement they had where the rifles would still carry the name Bruno, but would essentially by a CZ.

    And thanks for that advice Shooty, will keep that in mind! Only thing is, do you perhaps recall when the cutoff date was where Bruno became an independence manufacturer? As well as onto that, old Brunos themselves would also have issues derived from use and age, would they not??
    As I said, there have been no Brno rifles produced since the transition to CZ in the early 90s.

    So I have no idea what rifles he is referring to, neither does he rest of the internet or any other Brno collector I have spoken to.

    If you have a link, a picture, anything, I would love to see it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  2. #12
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    Default Re: .22lr Izhmash or Bruno

    He could be referring to the last years of the BRNO 2E's production, not sure. I think the comment stems from the difference between BRNO 1 and 2 models. Some do prefer the 2 over the 1 though, for the adjustable trigger. The 1 is not able to use the trigger kits and I do not know if a complete trigger is available but at the price of the gun it would not be feasible anyway.

    According to US forums the star in the CZ line is the 452 American or varmint. I have seen one or two for sale in SA but can't remember which model. The current 455's are more plentifull and have great prices (about R8000) yet the 455's have been mostly seen in the Lux version.

    The easiest recommendation to make it obviously the BRNO 1, 2 or 2E but if you want to look for a Anschutz 1416 you might be able to pick one up in a few weeks or months, atm it seems like the owners are holding on to them because I do not see many ads but then again it seems like it is more the name because a Krico is the same rifle, sells for half the price and is everywhere atm.
    If you are in the JHB/Pretoria area you can phone NSN guns and ask if theer Krico is still there. Go feel how it feels and then wait for the next Classicarms auction. Sometimes you'll have more than one to choose from and they end up selling for about R3500. Spare mags are made by K-mag but they are not the best, people do get the originals form time to time and the owners of Krico's seems to be having little to no problems with their guns. They report good accuracy and generally consider them keepers.

    What you said about the Izhmash owner getting it easy makes me happy, I hope we will be discussing toggle vs bolt action one day.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: .22lr Izhmash or Bruno

    Quote Originally Posted by DBSomeone View Post
    Aw shucks that's unfortunate.

    As to the modified Winchester, I've read great things about those rifles although they seem rather hard to come by. Would not a magazine not be detrimental as when you're prone the magazine catches or interrupts your shooting? If I'm recalling correctly, that is the reason why the CM, Biathlon and various other target rifles only have the single shot trays?
    With regards to the modifications, it is definitely sad to see a rifle changed, but if this allows it to stretch it's legs and to perform better than it could before, I feel it would be better than being OEM but stuck in a safe the whole time as it doesn't work for your situations. Just my 2 cents though.
    I tried finding out more about magazines but the answers I got didn't really interest me because the difference was too small between the single shots and mag feeders for my purposes.
    When feeding a round the bullet would rub against the other leaving a mark. Luckily I do have a single feeding stray coming with the rifle so I can test how it goes and whether it is worth it. If the difference is too small I'll leave it in the cupboard.
    The action is also stiffer on a single shot but this is for people who want to win competitions, I do not know if me and you will appreciate much less even notice a difference.


    My main issue with modifying a gun is that I love them too much but there are some other things like the shortening of barrels, stocks etc that cause problems.
    My gun apparently had a crimp in the barrel's last few centimeters to give the bullet that last bit of control before leaving the barrel. At the end of the day I will not know if its accuracy suffered but these guns are too scarce for me to be picky so I just got pee'd off and bought it anyway ;)

    Concerning stocks I feel the gun should hold it's value or increase and doing anything permanent just lowers the chance of that.

    The look in a collector's eye when he sees it modified is also a reason. To have someone who has been looking for one for years and then he meets Johnny with his silenced single shot target gun with a drilled and tapped receiver is not lekker. I myself have a limited edition Winchester 9422 and the receiver is tapped. What this will sell for I do not know but it won't reach the R17000 I recently saw at Classicarms. In the end it was never meant to be very accurate anyway and the receiver had dovetails so the previous owner really effed up on this one.

    Lastly these guns are not becoming more. Lets say there was 5000 in the 60's and by the year 2017 about half where left due to owners simply using them or neglecting them, half of the remaining 2500 received stock screws from just ordinary owners not knowing any better (this is like putting bucket seats in a original Mustang) and then comes the guys who simply wanna tactical everything and there are less orginals every day. For me this is truly sad.

    Anyway that is all personal opinion and in most cases you will get more in a lifetime's pleasure from the gun while shooting it than a collector will have with it just standing in his safe so the decision is in the owner's hands and would I would never say anything about a man's choices...unless the gun ended up in my safe.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: .22lr Izhmash or Bruno

    Quote Originally Posted by Meteor View Post
    I tried finding out more about magazines but the answers I got didn't really interest me because the difference was too small between the single shots and mag feeders for my purposes.
    When feeding a round the bullet would rub against the other leaving a mark. Luckily I do have a single feeding stray coming with the rifle so I can test how it goes and whether it is worth it. If the difference is too small I'll leave it in the cupboard.
    The action is also stiffer on a single shot but this is for people who want to win competitions, I do not know if me and you will appreciate much less even notice a difference.


    My main issue with modifying a gun is that I love them too much but there are some other things like the shortening of barrels, stocks etc that cause problems.
    My gun apparently had a crimp in the barrel's last few centimeters to give the bullet that last bit of control before leaving the barrel. At the end of the day I will not know if its accuracy suffered but these guns are too scarce for me to be picky so I just got pee'd off and bought it anyway ;)

    Concerning stocks I feel the gun should hold it's value or increase and doing anything permanent just lowers the chance of that.

    The look in a collector's eye when he sees it modified is also a reason. To have someone who has been looking for one for years and then he meets Johnny with his silenced single shot target gun with a drilled and tapped receiver is not lekker. I myself have a limited edition Winchester 9422 and the receiver is tapped. What this will sell for I do not know but it won't reach the R17000 I recently saw at Classicarms. In the end it was never meant to be very accurate anyway and the receiver had dovetails so the previous owner really effed up on this one.

    Lastly these guns are not becoming more. Lets say there was 5000 in the 60's and by the year 2017 about half where left due to owners simply using them or neglecting them, half of the remaining 2500 received stock screws from just ordinary owners not knowing any better (this is like putting bucket seats in a original Mustang) and then comes the guys who simply wanna tactical everything and there are less orginals every day. For me this is truly sad.

    Anyway that is all personal opinion and in most cases you will get more in a lifetime's pleasure from the gun while shooting it than a collector will have with it just standing in his safe so the decision is in the owner's hands and would I would never say anything about a man's choices...unless the gun ended up in my safe.

    All these are fair points and I appreciate the time you spent to type out these replies.
    Unfortunately I had to give the Izhmash a skip as it was still a bit pricey for me. I am however now looking at a Iver Johnson Model X-2 :D

    Also Meteor, with regards to the toggle vs bolt actions, does not the over center linkage still let the bolt move around a little, leading to an impact on accuracy?

  5. #15

    Default Re: .22lr Izhmash or Bruno

    I am referring to the brand new models. Not the older BRNO Mark2's.

    In the last 2-3 years there was quite a couple of new BRNO 22lr's that came out.
    They have nothing to do with CZ or the older reliable Mark2 or Mark1.

    The new once have serious issues. All the once bought at local dealer here was sent back and customers refunded.
    They have light strikes and even no strikes.
    At one point it was said the bolt needs to be cut or modified by importers.
    But it seems this did not work at all to fix it.

    So if you buy brand new. Buy CZ not BRNO.

    If you buy older models the BRNO Mark 1 or Mark 2. That will work brilliant.
    There are no issues with them

  6. #16
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    Default Re: .22lr Izhmash or Bruno

    Quote Originally Posted by DBSomeone View Post
    All these are fair points and I appreciate the time you spent to type out these replies.
    Unfortunately I had to give the Izhmash a skip as it was still a bit pricey for me. I am however now looking at a Iver Johnson Model X-2 :D

    Also Meteor, with regards to the toggle vs bolt actions, does not the over center linkage still let the bolt move around a little, leading to an impact on accuracy?
    I imagine seeing an Iver for about R2000, how much would you like to spend?

    If you have the patience you can put up a wanted ad for a few different models and the price you want to pay. I am sure you will get something good that way.
    I bought my mother's BRNO model 2E for R2700 6 months ago and it came with a scope and sling. It was like new I kid you not. I myself am VERY jealous.

    The toggle actions seems to be only on the premuim Anschutz and Izhmash rifles so I think they will be good to great but not worse.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: .22lr Izhmash or Bruno

    Here's a good example of a lekker deal.
    Classicarms auction 3 June
    G019 Remington Scoremaster , sold for R2400
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/37jxsf8v6...0G019.JPG?dl=0

    BRNOs are currently going for 4 to 5 thousand privately so I would not buy that way...only through an auction.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: .22lr Izhmash or Bruno

    Quote Originally Posted by shooty View Post
    I am referring to the brand new models. Not the older BRNO Mark2's.

    In the last 2-3 years there was quite a couple of new BRNO 22lr's that came out.
    They have nothing to do with CZ or the older reliable Mark2 or Mark1.

    The new once have serious issues. All the once bought at local dealer here was sent back and customers refunded.
    They have light strikes and even no strikes.
    At one point it was said the bolt needs to be cut or modified by importers.
    But it seems this did not work at all to fix it.

    So if you buy brand new. Buy CZ not BRNO.

    If you buy older models the BRNO Mark 1 or Mark 2. That will work brilliant.
    There are no issues with them
    Seriously!!!!

    Please post a link, picture, hand drawn sketch, something!

    You are talking about something that doesn't exist!

  9. #19
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    Default Re: .22lr Izhmash or Bruno

    Quote Originally Posted by Meteor View Post
    I imagine seeing an Iver for about R2000, how much would you like to spend?

    If you have the patience you can put up a wanted ad for a few different models and the price you want to pay. I am sure you will get something good that way.
    I bought my mother's BRNO model 2E for R2700 6 months ago and it came with a scope and sling. It was like new I kid you not. I myself am VERY jealous.

    The toggle actions seems to be only on the premuim Anschutz and Izhmash rifles so I think they will be good to great but not worse.
    Yeah, I found one for R2300, I'd like to pay about R3000 maximum.

    I'm definitely would rather spend the time to wait, where would you suggest I put the advert up? And that sounds awesome, congratz! I've also heard the classicarms auction being recommended but do you know when the next one is scheduled as I missed the one on the 3rd.

    That is fair enough, but if I'm not mistaken, is this not why people like bolts with multiple locking lugs, which prevents the bolt from shifting and thus changing the consistency of each shot as with the over center linkage, no matter what you do, there will be guaranteed some kind of shift upon firing or if there is any play between the limbs of the linkage (which occurs over time due to wear and due to the length of each linkage, exaggerates the play).

  10. #20
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    Default Re: .22lr Izhmash or Bruno

    Quote Originally Posted by Spudattack View Post
    Seriously!!!!

    Please post a link, picture, hand drawn sketch, something!

    You are talking about something that doesn't exist!
    I cannot speak for anyone else but I grew up in the city with no experience what so ever with firearms and hence I ask.

    So while all this may be true, there is no need to get worked up, we are all here to learn, and seeing as you seem to be quite knowledgeable about the Brno series, perhaps you can enlighten us and anyone who is looking for information in future. Your efforts will be greatly appreciated by all who learn anything from it I'm sure.

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