To vote or not to vote.......

[Pirate]

The IEC can tell you exactly how many voted, simply by totalling all the IDs scanned with scanners that printed 1 receipt per voter. That is the actual number. Should not take more than 5 minutes to produce.

If News24 stats are correct - then the total of IDs scanned to vote is only about 6 million. It says the info they are publishing live is supplied by the IEC.

So where did you get 16 million figure from?

If their data in terms of that is already a stuff up - no point in monitoring the rest - which could be just as stuffed up - as supplied by the IEC ... LOL

I do not believe the "total votes cast" number on n24 is the what you're referring to. It makes far more sense that it's the total votes counted, and that it's incorrectly labelled.

Re the 16 million: historic voter turnout is in the order of 75% and it looks similar in this election. So total counted votes should be just shy of 19 million.

:- P

[HvR]

The IEC can tell you exactly how many voted, simply by totalling all the IDs scanned with scanners that printed 1 receipt per voter. That is the actual number. Should not take more than 5 minutes to produce.

If News24 stats are correct - then the total of IDs scanned to vote is only about 6 million. It says the info they are publishing live is supplied by the IEC.

So where did you get 16 million figure from?

If their data in terms of that is already a stuff up - no point in monitoring the rest - which could be just as stuffed up - as supplied by the IEC ... LOL

It is now 6 670 000, so are people still voting?

• 
  Data from IEC, but News24 creates the graphics and labels.
  
  When they reached 6 000 000 votes, the IEC said they counted around 40% of the votes.

[ikor]

Govts are govts no matter what part of the world you're in. Here's a view from across the Atlantic.

The fact that we are allowed to choose our dictators doesn’t make us any freer. It merely gives voters the feeling of power and the illusion of control. All the while they are being manipulated into supporting a government that implements policies detrimental to their well being.

What better way is there to get people to follow the law and pay taxes than to convince them that these things are their will? What better way is there to get people to tolerate the government’s evils than by convincing them that the situation is temporary and that they can change the government at the next election? What better way is there to get people to respect elected officials than to convince them that they, the people, chose these scoundrels to represent them? (A mandate, it’s called.) None of these things are true, but the fraud works. Democracy is held to be the best form of government yet devised. The question is best for whom? Certainly not the people.

It does work best for the ruling elites who can hide their evil plans behind a smiling democratic facade. The formula is to give people just enough freedom to feel free but not so much that the government loses control of them. To assure that the people will put up with their laws, antics, and taxes the ruling class must keep the citizens involved.

It is past time for people to face the reality of what voting really is, an endorsement of the evils that governments commit. I call on you not to take part in this fraud any more. Withhold your consent! Have the courage to join us in principled nonvoting and commit not to vote ever again. Remember, if you vote don’t complain!

You need to get a room with NWPSA, coz that is some of the stupidest shit I have ever read.

Are you a 'sovereign citizen'?

[JS4]

Yeah, I share the frustration of 'how can these guys keep voting for the ANC... what is wrong with them?'


But then, consider for how long people used to vote for the NATS, even while being unhappy with things...

[BigT]

Yeah, I share the frustration of 'how can these guys keep voting for the ANC... what is wrong with them?'


But then, consider for how long people used to vote for the NATS, even while being unhappy with things...

Yup

And to be honest I would rather they continue voting unthinkingly for the ANC than they decide to move to the EFF...

[P35]

It is now 6 670 000, so are people still voting?

• 
  Data from IEC, but News24 creates the graphics and labels.
  
  When they reached 6 000 000 votes, the IEC said they counted around 40% of the votes.

Indeed.

I now read from another source - the actual total is over 70% of total voters roll. Source of those stats - not disclosed by SABC.

Assuming then, that is the total number of IDs scanned at polling stations.

[francois.viljoen]

Govts are govts no matter what part of the world you're in. Here's a view from across the Atlantic.

The fact that we are allowed to choose our dictators doesn’t make us any freer. It merely gives voters the feeling of power and the illusion of control. All the while they are being manipulated into supporting a government that implements policies detrimental to their well being.

What better way is there to get people to follow the law and pay taxes than to convince them that these things are their will? What better way is there to get people to tolerate the government’s evils than by convincing them that the situation is temporary and that they can change the government at the next election? What better way is there to get people to respect elected officials than to convince them that they, the people, chose these scoundrels to represent them? (A mandate, it’s called.) None of these things are true, but the fraud works. Democracy is held to be the best form of government yet devised. The question is best for whom? Certainly not the people.

It does work best for the ruling elites who can hide their evil plans behind a smiling democratic facade. The formula is to give people just enough freedom to feel free but not so much that the government loses control of them. To assure that the people will put up with their laws, antics, and taxes the ruling class must keep the citizens involved.

It is past time for people to face the reality of what voting really is, an endorsement of the evils that governments commit. I call on you not to take part in this fraud any more. Withhold your consent! Have the courage to join us in principled nonvoting and commit not to vote ever again. Remember, if you vote don’t complain!

darrenlobo, what a load of shit you speak! Want to guess what would happen in an election where we all withhold our votes? The guy who votes (for himself most likely) rules. Those who crave power will always chase power - e.g politicians. Democracy gives a way to remove them from "the throne" by ticking a box on a paper instead of starting a civil war every time.

Inaction never was, and never will be effective form of protest. You should be so ignorant to not see that you are doing precisely what a power-hungry government expects you do be doing against it - NOTHING.

Todor, consider for a moment that most people who reach the decision to stop voting and care to comment on it don't do so on a whim. For most people who make that decision it is more akin to changing religion than it is to what you seem to think it is - which I'm guessing is inaction, apathy and/or laziness.

Personally, I decided not to vote after literally 8 months of studying history and economics - full time - probably 10 hours a day.

Most people who decide not to vote on principle do so because they realize it's a joke. But do you really think that is the only thing they decide to change? And then do NOTHING, as you put it?

The sheep mentality is the shrugging of personal responsibility. Here on Gunsite, people are often criticized for having a sheep mentality - where people believe they don't need to protect themselves, often simply because it's unpopular or, just as often, because they believe the government will save them.

And then the same people who criticize others for having sheep mentalities obediently go stand in queues at voting stations to draw a little X next to the party who they believe will save them, in the comfort that by doing so they've done their part and made their contributions to saving the country as a whole, while at the same time harshly criticising those who don't follow their examples.

I see the predictions are 62.5% ANC, 22.5% DA and 5% EFF. So we're looking at 85% socialist and 5% fascist government. History really is remarkable repetitive.

[Tetelestai]

It's not looking good now. Between the ANC and EFF, more than 66.6% of the vote...

[P35]

It's not looking good now. Between the ANC and EFF, more than 66.6% of the vote...

Many brands - change their names (or sell two brands) to keep trading, and keep customers under an old and new brand name... :)

A simple example: Skip and Omo are made by the same company - on the shelf they appear to compete in price tag and "perceived value" with one another from a consumer perspective.... While all the profits of both brands go to one company.

Some people say social science and psychology is not an exact science... well I beg to differ. Voters are consumers of a political brand...at least once every 5 years.

And its possible that 2 brands may actually belong to the same "holding company" even if they appear to be competitors to the uninformed consumer.

Time will tell if this is a real change of management, or semantics. Lets see how the coalitions form after the election results are out - they have 5 years.

[Todor]

Most people who decide not to vote on principle do so because they realize it's a joke. But do you really think that is the only thing they decide to change? And then do NOTHING, as you put it?

I see the predictions are 62.5% ANC, 22.5% DA and 5% EFF. So we're looking at 85% socialist and 5% fascist government. History really is remarkable repetitive.

You have very high expectations of the voting process. I don't expect a single politician to make my life better. I don't "vote for change" and I think the people who expect their government to save them are "the sheep" you speak of. I also think people who take individual and social responsibility do much more for "the country" than the government does and that's extremely important too.

That said. The ONLY thing I hate more than socialist/fascist is a party staying in power for 20 years. Power corrupts, absolute power... etc. e.g I don't care you you vote in - just vote out the people starting to plant roots.

I can go on and on arguing this view point, but this article sums it up http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/opini.../#.U2pTea2SywG