Is it worth the effort?

**njvdwesth** · 31-07-2020, 13:51

So as mentioned in another thread, I am one of the people with an expired section 13 licence.

While it probably doesn't matter what the reason is why I did not renew when I had to, I still believe I have a valid reason for not renewing it and at the time I sent the following explanation to Natshoot in 2018 when they requested members with expired licences to provide them with the reasons thereof:

The expiration date of the licence for my firearm issued under Section 13 of the FCA expired on the 8th of October 2017. 90 days before the expiration date was 10 July 2017.

I went to my local DFO (Lephalale) approximately a month before the 10th of July to hand in my renewal application and I was subsequently turned away and was told that I must hand it in closer to the 90 days before expiration which would be 10 July 2017.

When the judgement of Judge Tolmay was made on the 4th of July 2017 in which she ordered all white licences (also those which had expired as well as those that would still expire) to be deemed valid until Parliament had amended sections 24 and 28 of the Firearms Control Act (thus implying that I did not need to submit a renewal application for my white licence which will still expire due to her court order) I did not go to hand in my renewal application on the 10th of July as I was under the impression that my licence would remain valid according to her judgement.

I am a member of NHSA as well as GOSA and when the amnesty which just ended was announced I followed multiple people's advice not to hand in the firearm and then re-apply. I was not aware of the advice which was subsequently changed which recommended that people with expired licenses do in fact hand in their firearms and re-apply. (This is obviously my own fault I know)

I understand that while the exact details of the upcoming amnesty have not yet been published, people in the same position as myself would be most likely be allowed to re-apply or hopefully renew their expired licences.

Just spoke to my local DFO who said that I will have to renew my competency as well should I be allowed to re-apply during the upcoming amnesty (Which is strange, because while my competency was issued in 2012, my section 13 licence expired in 2017 but I also have other S15 licences which is only expiring in 2022, 2023 & 2026 and I always understood that the competency was valid until the expiry of the last licence, unless I had it wrong.)

So now to get to the actual question... the firearm in question is a CZ83 9mm short, not the ideal self-defense firearm, but I got it from my father and at the time was too stupid to know any better. Luckily I have a P320 under Section 15 which I have been carrying since I received my licence for it in 2016. I have no intention to carry the CZ83 unless I absolutely have to and I also don't have any sentimental value for it. While I know I probably won't get a lot for it, my plan has always been to eventually sell it and to buy something else and licence it under S13. The issue that I now face is, is it really worth all the schlep to re-licence it through the amnesty, wait probably 3 - 6 months only to then sell it, buy a new gun and go through the whole process again? I obviously don't want to hand it in to the police for "destruction", but I'm really starting to wonder if it won't save me a lot of hassle.

**High Power** · 31-07-2020, 14:45

You are correct about the validity of your competency, whatever else your DFO says. Howver, suject to the possible terms of any forthcoming amnesty (if there is one) you seem to have run out of options on your illegal CZ.

Peter

**shooty** · 31-07-2020, 14:53

I went to apply for new 12g at end May2020. DFO told me my Competency stays valid on Shotguns until my last 12g/Shotgun license card expires.

So as long as you have a valid license for that specific competency type. Handgun, Rifle or Shotgun. Your competency should stay valid.

So if your S15 are same category competency should still be valid according what I understood from DFO.

**njvdwesth** · 31-07-2020, 14:58

Originally Posted by shooty

I went to apply for new 12g at end May2020. DFO told me my Competency stays valid on Shotguns until my last 12g/Shotgun license card expires.

So as long as you have a valid license for that specific competency type. Handgun, Rifle or Shotgun. Your competency should stay valid.

So if your S15 are same category competency should still be valid according what I understood from DFO.

Cool thanks. Yes my competency is for Handgun, Rifle and Shotgun and the 3 valid S15 licences are for two rifles and a handgun.

**DaavG** · 31-07-2020, 15:01

Originally Posted by njvdwesth

The issue that I now face is, is it really worth all the schlep to re-licence it through the amnesty, wait probably 3 - 6 months only to then sell it, buy a new gun and go through the whole process again?

Can you afford to not sell it and buy a new gun (i.e. what's it worth)? If you can afford to I would hand it in and be done with it. Or license it under say section 16 if you want to keep it.

**Kola** · 31-07-2020, 15:04

Hand it in, they need more guns in Delft...

This is a dilemma, you only have two choices if the amnesty allows renewals, and it is yours to make, do what you believe is right for you.

**njvdwesth** · 31-07-2020, 15:32

Originally Posted by DaavG

Can you afford to not sell it and buy a new gun (i.e. what's it worth)? If you can afford to I would hand it in and be done with it. Or license it under say section 16 if you want to keep it.

I'm not sure exactly how much they sell for but would guess in the region of about R2,500. Could probably recover something by selling the mags, holsters etc separately.

I actually haven't thought of licencing it under S16, I do have dedicated status so that could be an option.

If I go that route, when does the S13 slot become available again? Once I hand it in or only once it is licensed under the new section?

**High Power** · 31-07-2020, 17:26

Originally Posted by shooty

I went to apply for new 12g at end May2020. DFO told me my Competency stays valid on Shotguns until my last 12g/Shotgun license card expires.

So as long as you have a valid license for that specific competency type. Handgun, Rifle or Shotgun. Your competency should stay valid.

So if your S15 are same category competency should still be valid according what I understood from DFO.

I do NOT aagree with this interpretation of the legislation. You have a competency certificate for two categories, but it is the competency that "refers" to all your licences, not the category. A competency renewal will involve a check for a criminal recored and a reconfirmation that you originally passed the necessary tests; nothing to do with the firearms you currently hold on licence.

Peter

**Wezza** · 31-07-2020, 17:46

Originally Posted by njvdwesth

I'm not sure exactly how much they sell for but would guess in the region of about R2,500. Could probably recover something by selling the mags, holsters etc separately.

I actually haven't thought of licencing it under S16, I do have dedicated status so that could be an option.

If I go that route, when does the S13 slot become available again? Once I hand it in or only once it is licensed under the new section?

What if your P320 was either used in a defensive shooting and taken in for ballistic testing or not in working order?

Would the CZ83 not then become a handy back up firearm?

**Gleock** · 31-07-2020, 19:37

Originally Posted by High Power

I do NOT aagree with this interpretation of the legislation. You have a competency certificate for two categories, but it is the competency that "refers" to all your licences, not the category. A competency renewal will involve a check for a criminal recored and a reconfirmation that you originally passed the necessary tests; nothing to do with the firearms you currently hold on licence.

Peter

So if you have two shotguns, one licenced 4 years after the first.
You then sell the gun with the first licence, in the year it's licence expires.
Four years before the second shotgun expires, you no longer have a competency?