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  1. #11
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    Default Re: OOM, EK WIL 'N SNIPER WORD!

    Quote Originally Posted by A-R View Post
    This ^^^

    We should expect more of this kind of activities in future.
    I also think it's more in this line.
    last year after a 3gun match i go to the safe area to pack up my rig with sport firearm and get my edc back onto my belt. guy next to me with a Z88, "cleaning'" the firearm with a can of Q20 spraying the living daylight out of the gun. he turns to me and the following conversation starts
    Guest: can you give me five bullets please(this is actually the first guy i hear on a range calling ammunition bullets, and this sets off my alarm trigger immediately), i want to check if my gun works.
    Me: err, nope sorry cant do that.
    Guest: what caliber do you shoot
    Me: 9mm
    Guest: same as my issue gun (duh you do know that us civvies dont get issued with guns)
    Me: Try the clubhouse, they have a gunshop there who can help you out with ammo
    Guest: Ag please man, just a few bullets, i just cleaned the gun and now want to see if it works
    Me: (Getting really annoyed with this dude now) sorry man, my gun is chambered for a long 9mm its a .38 super, it wont fit in your gun(making up lies now just to get rid of this guy)
    Guest: (blank stare) Ohh okay

    he turns and goes to is car, unmarked white etios with no hub caps but the number plate reads B........B (what are you trying officer??)

  2. #12
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    Nov 2011
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    Default Re: OOM, EK WIL 'N SNIPER WORD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shigawagga View Post

    This led me to thinking why "sniping" has such an allure, as it is in my opinion a most cowardly method of waging war. A sniper is trained to avoid contact with the enemy whilst taking as many lives, or specifically targeted lives as possible all the while not offering your target/foe an opportunity to defend themselves. How can this be glorified. Nothing other than murder in my humble opinion.
    How else would you like them do it? Isn’t that a smart way of waging war? I mean, if there is anything you could do to protect your own, why not do it?

    And what about soldiers receiving air or artillery support against pedestrian combatants?

    The only thing that matters is that you don’t leave defeated.

  3. #13
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    Apr 2011
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    Limpopo.
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    Default Re: OOM, EK WIL 'N SNIPER WORD!

    Snipers are quiet proffessionals. Everyone wants to be one until they realise its mostly just recon, lying in a position for hours on end. From what I understand the shooter is usually the junior in the sniper spotter team, because anyone can be taught to follow shooting fundamentals. Stalking, calculating ballistics, reading the elements and the situation on hand and all that are much more important. Anyone here can compete in a prs match, but that doesn't make you a sniper, much the same as being a good shot doesn't immediately make you a good hunter.

  4. #14
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    Jul 2011
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    BFN Freestate
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    Default Re: OOM, EK WIL 'N SNIPER WORD!

    I have watched several documentaries about snipers and the only thing I can say is most people have no idea what they are or what they do. You get the idea that many people think snipers shoot other people at long range, and that is their job, and it is cool.

    After watching documentaries the only thing I can compare sniper training with is a university course, they just spend hours and hours in classrooms. In these classrooms they study everything, and I mean everything from technology, geography, human behavior sciences, the list is very long. And they are really not even that great shooters, I remember the one guy said that just about all professional competition shooters in the states can shoot better than a sniper, because that is what they do they shoot the whole day, and sniping is not about shooting. Hell snipers don’t even use chrony’s and they don’t even reload ammo, they have dedicated people in the armory that reloads for them.

    Their job if I have to simplify in my own mind is knowing and having complete knowledge on how to operate in the specific environment and completing whatever objective is required of them in the most efficient way possible. And this seldom includes going in to kill someone, that is done remotely by other technology, acquiring ground data and working within a group environment providing support is just about all they do.

    This is why I seriously doubt any civilian outfit has the capacity to train military snipers, your resource base must just be massive, you must have your own satellite systems which ties in with military tech comms and whatnot.

    Shooting, that is something you can teach anyone, and that is just about the smallest part of what makes a good sniper.

  5. #15
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    Port Elizabeth
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    Default Re: OOM, EK WIL 'N SNIPER WORD!

    Being involved in the PSC/PMC world in the Middle East for the best part of 16 years I can tell you he has a snowballs change in hell in becoming a sniper in Iraq. Very very few civilian organizations uses that terminology over here let alone employ or utilize them. Are there trained snipers employed here outside the military? Sure, many companies hire former military and police that had that qualification before they left the force. Are they deployed here as snipers? Hell no....at best they might be appointed as Designated Marksmen on an over watch but sniping is best left to the military. The military has Rules of Engagement (RoE) that allows their snipers to conduct offensive work and eliminate potential threats. As civilians we do not have RoE's but rather Rules for the Use of Force(RUF) which only allows for defensive use of weapons and even the type and caliber of weapon are strictly regulated.

    I've heard my fair share of sniper bar and braai stories and for most part just smile and nod.......

  6. #16
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    Aug 2012
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    Stella
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shigawagga View Post
    ... He promptly started asking me about my background and what qualified me to be able to offer such courses and became quite snotty about it.

    This led me to thinking why "sniping" has such an allure, ...
    People often react from emotions, and not from clear and logical fact based thoughts. We have seen it quite a few times in our work: young people fell in love with the idea of each other, instead of with the real person, and are stuck in an unhappy marriage.

    Same with becoming a fireman, a mercenary or a sniper. The person's idea of doing this or that is alluring.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: OOM, EK WIL 'N SNIPER WORD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Wells View Post
    Genuine snipers should be recognised for the professionals they are. I have known/know a few and they are the complete antithesis of the 'grens-vegter' type.
    ***********************
    Yes Peter, you are so correct. Your doctor, accountant and lawyer are far more likely candidates to have been of the character needed for what we speak of than the top guy at the Gym/Dojo or Bisley shoot.

  8. #18
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    Apr 2019
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    Cape Town
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    611

    Default Re: OOM, EK WIL 'N SNIPER WORD!

    Quote Originally Posted by treeman View Post
    ***********************
    Yes Peter, you are so correct. Your doctor, accountant and lawyer are far more likely candidates to have been of the character needed for what we speak of than the top guy at the Gym/Dojo or Bisley shoot.
    Quite surprising how many doctors, vets, accountants and engineers are actually top shots. A few lawyers as well.

    Turns out that shooting at a high level also require skills applicable to those professions

  9. #19
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    Default Re: OOM, EK WIL 'N SNIPER WORD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shigawagga View Post
    This led me to thinking why "sniping" has such an allure, as it is in my opinion a most cowardly method of waging war. A sniper is trained to avoid contact with the enemy whilst taking as many lives, or specifically targeted lives as possible all the while not offering your target/foe an opportunity to defend themselves. How can this be glorified. Nothing other than murder in my humble opinion.
    I agree with the part in bold. There is no glory in shooting from a hiding place. To me its not much different than shooting animals at a watering hole from a hide.

    In an actual battle there might be some glory afterwards. But while its raging there is only fear and destruction.

    I was a cop for 20 years and often met members from other units who were allegedly "snipers" (or so they said...) And I still run into the odd individual who claims they were employed as a "sniper" while they were in the police...

    I suppose its just a situation of people having their minds molded by popular media and movies.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: OOM, EK WIL 'N SNIPER WORD!

    Quote Originally Posted by janfred View Post
    Quite surprising how many doctors, vets, accountants and engineers are actually top shots. A few lawyers as well.

    Turns out that shooting at a high level also require skills applicable to those professions
    ********************
    Same as most sports with risk attached.
    Any form of motor racing requires exceptional top level thinking, self-control and analytical thinking on many levels. A top class racer is a remarkable example of human ability.
    Boxing also requires exceptional abilities in regard to beating another man with almost equal if not better abilities than you. Even boxing is finally a brain game.(except Mike Tyson)

    Top soldiers are not hero's or gung ho, they not even soldiers actually, they finely honed thinking mechanisms with far more than killing in mind when they work, even 50 years ago, the top soldiers were less than 3 % of those tested, not enrolled, just trying out. Of those that tried out for, let’s say Green Beret's, as the song said 100 men we test today, but only 3 win the Green Beret.
    Only a few, very very few become what young men admire and dream of.
    Lastly, modern sniping is more maths, science and technology than shooting.

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