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  1. #1
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    Default 30-06 and Kudu vs .223 and Impala

    Over the weekend I took the kids for a hunt. Bushveld area. my 12 y.o son was on for his first Kudu bull. He has hunted impala and warthog before. Sister (9) wanted her first hunt and an Impala ram was on the menu. My son never liked shooting the 30-06. The stock is too long for him, it is a light rifle and thus recoil a problem. When the discussion about a kudu bull came I told him fair and square: "Listen son, the most suitable gun we have for kudu bulls are the 30-06. That is what you are going to use or you don't hunt." We started practising and getting over the recoil shyness. Just 1 shot taken per session and later 2, working up to 3 shots and that was it. No more for one day. The girl in the family are very small. No way she can handle a proper hunting rifle. The solution was the AR in .223 with the stock on a short setting and only 1 round in the chamber with the 10 round magazine in my pocket.

    The kudu bull was taken at 53 meters on the shoulder. It was late already so the instruction was to line up the cross hair with the front leg, go 25-30 % up and hit him there. A sure shot was needed. So he did and 60 meter further the kudu bull went down with a crash from a perfect heart shot. The bullet (180 gr Hornady Interbond) was recovered under the skin. After breaking a lot of bones, slicing the heart in 2, hitting some more bones and penetrating to under the skin on the far side 173 grains were recovered. Excellent performance.

    Then came the impala. I have never hunted with the AR. So I bought some Federal Fusions in 62 grain. She shot the ram at 48 meters at the same spot where the kudu was shot. We made sure no grass or twigs are close, waited till the ram stepped into a road) and also that the shot were placed correctly. The ram went down 50 meter further. All good and well. Fragments of the bullet were recovered in the shoulder muscle on the far side. It did not even made it to the skin. Of the 62 grains the largest single piece weighed in on 12 grains!

    A nephew on the farm over over weekend also wanted his first hunt. So he used my 30-06 (I refused anything smaller as he is big enough to use it). He shot an impala ram, again with the same shot placement on a broadside shot. The shot also 55 meters. There were some gras and the odd twig in the way. His ram collapsed on the spot without the CNS being hit. Bullet not recovered as it went straight through.

    So why this post?

    We slaughter ourselves, inspect damage and wound channels etc. What I have seen now with my own eyes are very clear and that is that a .223 are not a proper and sure to kill hunting caliber. Yes, it did the job to perfection. But there are serious doubts in my mind that it can be used for larger antelope. I am of opinion, after studying the internal damage of both scenarios, that should the kudu have been shot with a .223 on the same distance and placement that a wounded animal are on hand. And that with proper bonded bullets. With standard soft point ammo even more so.

    I know there are firm believers in .223 "killing power" and yes, it will kill, no doubt. But if I find a kudu bull and it is late and the mountains are close and the thick bush also and I don't want a very hard recovery etc etc, I am not a believer after this weekend.

    We have used enough gun for both animals and had a fantastic hunt and therefore wanted to share that all of us are of opinion that only perfect placement makes a .223 a option for smaller antelope only and also supply our opinion to other concerned dads that if you want your childs first hunt to rather not end in a wounded animal, seriously consider to use enough gun and keep in mind that a .223 has serious limitations.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: 30-06 and Kudu vs .223 and Impala

    Quote Originally Posted by Adoons View Post
    Over the weekend I took the kids for a hunt. Bushveld area. my 12 y.o son was on for his first Kudu bull. He has hunted impala and warthog before. Sister (9) wanted her first hunt and an Impala ram was on the menu. My son never liked shooting the 30-06. The stock is too long for him, it is a light rifle and thus recoil a problem. When the discussion about a kudu bull came I told him fair and square: "Listen son, the most suitable gun we have for kudu bulls are the 30-06. That is what you are going to use or you don't hunt." We started practising and getting over the recoil shyness. Just 1 shot taken per session and later 2, working up to 3 shots and that was it. No more for one day. The girl in the family are very small. No way she can handle a proper hunting rifle. The solution was the AR in .223 with the stock on a short setting and only 1 round in the chamber with the 10 round magazine in my pocket.

    The kudu bull was taken at 53 meters on the shoulder. It was late already so the instruction was to line up the cross hair with the front leg, go 25-30 % up and hit him there. A sure shot was needed. So he did and 60 meter further the kudu bull went down with a crash from a perfect heart shot. The bullet (180 gr Hornady Interbond) was recovered under the skin. After breaking a lot of bones, slicing the heart in 2, hitting some more bones and penetrating to under the skin on the far side 173 grains were recovered. Excellent performance.

    Then came the impala. I have never hunted with the AR. So I bought some Federal Fusions in 62 grain. She shot the ram at 48 meters at the same spot where the kudu was shot. We made sure no grass or twigs are close, waited till the ram stepped into a road) and also that the shot were placed correctly. The ram went down 50 meter further. All good and well. Fragments of the bullet were recovered in the shoulder muscle on the far side. It did not even made it to the skin. Of the 62 grains the largest single piece weighed in on 12 grains!

    A nephew on the farm over over weekend also wanted his first hunt. So he used my 30-06 (I refused anything smaller as he is big enough to use it). He shot an impala ram, again with the same shot placement on a broadside shot. The shot also 55 meters. There were some gras and the odd twig in the way. His ram collapsed on the spot without the CNS being hit. Bullet not recovered as it went straight through.

    So why this post?

    We slaughter ourselves, inspect damage and wound channels etc. What I have seen now with my own eyes are very clear and that is that a .223 are not a proper and sure to kill hunting caliber. Yes, it did the job to perfection. But there are serious doubts in my mind that it can be used for larger antelope. I am of opinion, after studying the internal damage of both scenarios, that should the kudu have been shot with a .223 on the same distance and placement that a wounded animal are on hand. And that with proper bonded bullets. With standard soft point ammo even more so.

    I know there are firm believers in .223 "killing power" and yes, it will kill, no doubt. But if I find a kudu bull and it is late and the mountains are close and the thick bush also and I don't want a very hard recovery etc etc, I am not a believer after this weekend.

    We have used enough gun for both animals and had a fantastic hunt and therefore wanted to share that all of us are of opinion that only perfect placement makes a .223 a option for smaller antelope only and also supply our opinion to other concerned dads that if you want your childs first hunt to rather not end in a wounded animal, seriously consider to use enough gun and keep in mind that a .223 has serious limitations.
    I am in agreement with you. I use a 30-06 in the bushveld. Federal fusions are very soft bullets and the 223 is a fast caliber. An interbond, accubond or barnes bullet would probably have performed better.

  3. #3

    Default Re: 30-06 and Kudu vs .223 and Impala

    Did a farmer allow you to hunt with a 223 on Impala ?

    Also in your area is semi auto allowed for hunting. As there is restrictions on hunting with semi rifles.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: 30-06 and Kudu vs .223 and Impala

    In 223 I have shot two Impala with my Howa. First one a big ram and I broke his back. Mercy shot went right through the head. Second a knypkop on the shoulder and bullet found under the skin on the opposite side.

    Bullet used was 53gr Barnes TSX. I would use a premium bullet on body shots. Even saying that the 223 is marginal on game.

    The Odinance's prohibit the use of a semi-auto, but when hunting on an exempted farm it does not make sense to me. You are ultimately going to pay for the animal. If you want to hit it multiple times and spoil the carcass that is your choice. Even if you shoot more than one animal in quick succession it still means you are going to pay. What makes your action illegal?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: 30-06 and Kudu vs .223 and Impala

    I am the farmer. Don't need permission to hunt with a .223. The semi-auto rule.... Well, it was not in semi-auto mode as the magazine were removed to prevent sister from having a double tap. ha-ha. I am seriously serious about gun safety, that is why I did it with a removed mag. I know the law is the law. Doesn't make sense to me either.

  6. #6

    Default Re: 30-06 and Kudu vs .223 and Impala

    Quote Originally Posted by driepootx View Post
    In 223 I have shot two Impala with my Howa. First one a big ram and I broke his back. Mercy shot went right through the head. Second a knypkop on the shoulder and bullet found under the skin on the opposite side.

    Bullet used was 53gr Barnes TSX. I would use a premium bullet on body shots. Even saying that the 223 is marginal on game.

    The Odinance's prohibit the use of a semi-auto, but when hunting on an exempted farm it does not make sense to me. You are ultimately going to pay for the animal. If you want to hit it multiple times and spoil the carcass that is your choice. Even if you shoot more than one animal in quick succession it still means you are going to pay. What makes your action illegal?
    No you cant be serious with multiple shots and spoil the carcass. Are you seriously advocating unethical hunting by saying this? Ethical hunting is to put the animal down as quickly as possible. Not to shoot it as many times as you want because your any case paying for the animal so you can ruin the carcass if you want to. That in humane to the animal and seriously unethical what your saying.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: 30-06 and Kudu vs .223 and Impala

    Quote Originally Posted by shooty View Post
    No you cant be serious with multiple shots and spoil the carcass. Are you seriously advocating unethical hunting by saying this? Ethical hunting is to put the animal down as quickly as possible. Not to shoot it as many times as you want because your any case paying for the animal so you can ruin the carcass if you want to. That in humane to the animal and seriously unethical what your saying.
    You are not thinking this through. Does the animal know that I have shot it with a semi-auto or a bolt action rifle? Why not restrict all rifles to a single shot action? It has to do with your own ethics. Many people with a bolt action in any case use a few shots to take down an animal. Practice your shooting abilities

    Adoons made practical and ethical decisions to make it possible for his child to shoot the impala. The semi-auto part had sweet nothing to do with it.

  8. #8

    Default Re: 30-06 and Kudu vs .223 and Impala

    Quote Originally Posted by driepootx View Post
    You are not thinking this through. Does the animal know that I have shot it with a semi-auto or a bolt action rifle? Why not restrict all rifles to a single shot action? It has to do with your own ethics. Many people with a bolt action in any case use a few shots to take down an animal. Practice your shooting abilities

    Adoons made practical and ethical decisions to make it possible for his child to shoot the impala. The semi-auto part had sweet nothing to do with it.
    My question is not about Adoons. He clearly said what he has done. And how he showed her to shoot. And where to aim.

    My concern is your sentence showing unethical behavior and its the hunters choice if he wants to shoot an animal multiple times. Thats unethical hunting. As you must hunt with intention to kill animal as quick as possible. Going out with the intention from start to shoot animal multiple times because your paying for it. Is unethical planning of hunting. And nothing to do with if a Semi or bolt action is used.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: 30-06 and Kudu vs .223 and Impala

    A 223 in the hands of someone experienced is more ethical than a 30-06 in the hands of a once a year hunter, semi or bolt action.
    That is however not the point of the debate and not what Adoons wanted to convey, he just wanted to say use enough gun for intended prey.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: 30-06 and Kudu vs .223 and Impala

    Quote Originally Posted by shooty View Post
    My concern is your sentence showing unethical behavior and its the hunters choice if he wants to shoot an animal multiple times. Thats unethical hunting. As you must hunt with intention to kill animal as quick as possible. Going out with the intention from start to shoot animal multiple times because your paying for it. Is unethical planning of hunting. And nothing to do with if a Semi or bolt action is used.
    Barking up the wrong tree here Shooty.

    Driepootx is my hunting buddy. You can interpret his comment anyway you want but I know his ethical code having hunted with him and known him for many a year.
    One too many wasted sunsets and one too many for the road .........

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