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  1. #11
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    Default Re: population versus society behavior

    Quote Originally Posted by Meteor View Post
    Is the experiment perhaps not to illustrate that mice have a built in bomb with an inbreeding fuse?
    *****************
    Do you mean "is it?"
    OR
    "does it?"

  2. #12
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    Default Re: population versus society behavior

    Yes "does it".
    The experiment is very interesting and there are many behaviors I do not understand.

    I started thinking 'why are there still mice left in captivity' and I think the solution is to introduce new males. I also think the utopia was meant to fail because like people mentioned it is man made and not natural.
    What is amazing to me is that after probably decades of captive breeding nature still had an influence on these mice to the point where they would die off not knowing whether other populations exist.

    Overall, to me, this is a beautiful outcome.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: population versus society behavior

    Dead simple, it’s something build into living things to safeguard the species.

    At the core of any and all evolution is survival of the fittest, when you take away such concept you are destroying the organism. In simple terms, when a species becomes overly successful natural selection does not happen anymore and you destroy the gene pool. Look at humans, the current generation is the unhealthiest generation in history, by far most humans are obese and genetic disorders are very high in humanity. Yes we live longer but that is just the health system keeping us alive, if we did not have our health system and medicine from tomorrow on half of the people on earth will probably die within a year, that is the poor state humans are in.

    So when you reach a state of economic well being within any civilization it’s basically the beginning of self destruction. The first thing to go is the genetic strength, then every second person becomes gay or lesbian all of a sudden in order to stop natural breeding, every stupid and weak person that should never have been born suddenly gets a say in running things, so economic collapse is not far behind.
    So for example when a glorified flu comes along suddenly nobody can fight it naturally with the defenses humans build up over millennia of natural selection, because it’s gone, prosperity makes humans weak.

    Think of agent Smith’s words in the matrix, the first one they designed was a utopia, perfect, and humans rejected it, entire crops were lost. When you reach an unnatural state of evolution then something written into our dna code causes self destruction in various forms. Either societal degradation like we see all over, or weakness in the form of genetic deviations, or simply uselessness, like we see in most humans today. Back to my analogy of good times create week men etc.
    We have a thread about war in another section and some people are saying they smell it, it’s because that country has lost its way and is on this very path of self destruction.

    Humans must compete, it’s a basic requirement of life, hence in modern times we watch physical sports all kind, including cage fights where men beat each other to a pulp, and it’s perfectly natural, just like war is perfectly natural. Living in a society where you don’t have to compete or things are very easy will always create destruction. Take a simply example of a brat that inherits a fortune and another man that had to work damn hard to amass wealth, the one have a respect for it and the brat respects nothing, something must be earned to be valuable. It’s like me shooting animals from a vehicle, I do it a hell of a lot, simply put it means nothing to me, absolutely nothing, my heartbeat doesn’t even rise by 1 beat, merely since I know the harder but more valuable alternative.

    That is about it, happens to everything, to both mice and men.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: population versus society behavior

    Of mice and men Messor :)

  5. #15
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    Default Re: population versus society behavior

    Quote Originally Posted by Meteor View Post
    Of mice and men Messor :)
    ********************


    “I gotta think about that. We was always gonna do it by ourselves.”
    “I gotta think about that. We was always gonna do it by ourselves.”

  6. #16
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    Default Re: population versus society behavior

    To be honest calling it a utopia kind-of brings this experiment in to the Marvel universe for me because the scientist only uses carrying capacity to validate his wording. Food and water needs are met in all captive mice and captive animal behavior has shown that territory can be an object, not an area. A tyre can be an elephant's territory.

    The turning point in this experiment is said to be the 600 mouse mark but I feel this is untrue. Any cage with 2 males and a female has hierarchy.
    The point where things get interesting is when males have to start choosing what their main focus is. In ordinary circumstances males are not tasked with a constant life or death battle to maintain dominance. It is mostly small battles or constant small reinforcements that keep everyone seeing out of two eyes instead of one.

    The dominant male's task of protecting of young, inseminating females and keeping patriarchy falls short when groups come to this size. He will slowly start doing less tasks and focus on the task which he feels comes most natural. In this case keeping his dominance- from which all other obligations stem. He will do this to such an extent that his breeding and protection of young will become almost non existent. The other males will cover the females constantly and he will start attacking females and males alike. This stress will lead to females rejecting young.



    So the utopia leads to super aggressive males but it also leads to super aggressive subordinates. While some of the noncompetitive males become the beautiful ones and others the hotdogboys overall there is more physical stress, the cowards are cowarding harder, the mothers are protecting themselves so hard that it becomes survival (which is not something that makes you care about others) and the males become so obsessed with keeping dominance that they suffer with other important tasks.

    In our world we would be forming up gangs by this point, men who do not impress will turn to aggression (we would also see more clearly that females value it) and the stand out guys would be the virtuous ones- men who are dangerous but choose not to be. "Weak men can't be virtuous"



  7. #17
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    Default Re: population versus society behavior

    Double post

  8. #18
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    Default Re: population versus society behavior

    All successful societies come to an end, whether they're greek, roman, mongol or mice. My guess is inbreeding + a lack of predation skews this experiment.

    But don't worry, sooner or later the sun will implode as a dwarf, expand as a red giant and consume the planetary system. Fortunately long before that the seas will boil off, and we will all be dead. We will not see how the universe decomposes over time, and becomes nothing itself. Grin.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: population versus society behavior

    Quote Originally Posted by AJR View Post
    All successful societies come to an end, whether they're greek, roman, mongol or mice. My guess is inbreeding + a lack of predation skews this experiment.

    But don't worry, sooner or later the sun will implode as a dwarf, expand as a red giant and consume the planetary system. Fortunately long before that the seas will boil off, and we will all be dead. We will not see how the universe decomposes over time, and becomes nothing itself. Grin.
    ******************************
    Perhaps I shall drink tonight, feeling a bit down at realizing this.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: population versus society behavior

    I will drink with you.

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