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  1. #11
    Member Trundle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Licence the person, Register the Firearm

    Quote Originally Posted by VolderTort View Post
    Why does he think it's a bad idea?

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    Because he will lose money.
    Israeli Carry is for dead people

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Licence the person, Register the Firearm

    Quote Originally Posted by CorditeCrazy View Post
    Those that profit from the current system will like to Hoodwink you into thinking any other system is folly.
    That may well be true but he's ot the only one. For a long time I've been getting the impression that GOSA, or at least certain members of that organisation, have also been more than willing to profit from the situation.....

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Licence the person, Register the Firearm

    Whilst I’m supportive of license the individual, should the competency and / or license expire, then would all firearms be deemed illegal?

    So right now imagine a situation like we have now with expired licenses and no way to renew. Simple administrative oversight by the person and ALL their firearms are suddenly illegal.

    Any talk of license the individual must then carefully consider a multitude of scenarios.


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  4. #14
    User 414gates's Avatar
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    Default Re: Licence the person, Register the Firearm

    The individual is licensed by 'competency', the firearm is registered with a 'license'.

    I agree we already have that system.

    The actual problem is a lack of government administration capability, and inefficiency.

    Proposing change for it's own sake will not fix the problem of government administration, or increase government efficiency.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Licence the person, Register the Firearm

    Quote Originally Posted by Glockster View Post
    Is there ever an ideal time when dealing with govt.
    Prob not, but SAPS does seem to be empowered by their last two "victories"

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Licence the person, Register the Firearm

    Quote Originally Posted by pblaauw View Post
    I was about to mention this...lots of money to make writing motivations, doing all paperwork for applications, and of course, the charges for appeals...

    That said, I don't see ANC giving up an inch...
    Registering instead of licencing the firearm is not necessarily going to be a less onerous process and it is going to depend on what "regsitration" means and entails. Has "registration" been defined?

  7. #17

    Default Re: Licence the person, Register the Firearm

    But the real question is will I still only be able to own 4 firearms and be limited to 200 rounds without dedicated if this is implemented

  8. #18
    Moderator KK20's Avatar
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    Default Re: Licence the person, Register the Firearm

    Quote Originally Posted by Antlion View Post
    He posted this.
    Afternoon Everybody "licence the person register the gun". MMMmm.
    Although this is theoretically possible without changing the current legislation people or organisations who advocate such things often make such calls not knowing the history of firearm legislation or understanding the political environment.
    Let me get one issue out of the way immediately: we have such a system in place. It's called "competency" . SAPS have merely complicated the concept with the process of registering firearms as a"licence".
    When the first drafts of the FCA surfaced in 1997 , the concept of licensing the person and registering the firearm were debated until the regulations were published in March 2004.
    The political attitude of the ANC then was to ultimately prohibit all firearms by way of an incremental process of legislative prohibition. I have no reason to believe this attitude has changed at all: remember the answer of our President to Fred Camphor's question [he is ceo of SA Hunter's ]last year at a business function ? Our president said he saw no reason why there should be private ownership of firearms. From the President's mouth . Incidentally there is a lesson in this response : do not ask a question so publicly unless you know what the answer will be. If you do not know what the answer will be then frame the question or questions in such a manner that in context there can only be one correct answer. I digress.
    There was a commission of enquiry chaired by two senior advocates into the functioning of firearm dealers due to a complaint lodged by the "Black Gunowners Association " set up by the then minister of police under the auspices of the then secretary of police , Jenni Irish. Many submissions were made to this commission by dealers, trainers and even myself. Many contained similar arguments and we [ the dealers and I] even spelt out how the saps system could be changed with safeguards built in, to allow this . We were ignored.
    Fast forward to the present where we have two superior court decisions that have adversely commented on firearm owners who have not complied with the law: The SAH concourt challenge and the more recent Gosa SCA decision.
    My view is that we cannot expect any licensing concessions in the current environment because saps have their tails up right now and will be pressing for more restrictions, not less. We need to get our act together and reclaim the moral high ground as compliant , law abiding citizens. Then we need to approach the issue more succinctly using the method I suggested above: lead the politicians to the right conclusion by making the right suggestions at the right time. If we called for a much greater emphasis on competency [ and I concede many others have and do so] then , if we are compliant, we can talk about concessions in other areas of the legislation . Now is not the right time: we need to regroup and strategize . Remember the history of the FCA and why the ANC wanted it.
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  9. #19
    Moderator KK20's Avatar
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    Default Re: Licence the person, Register the Firearm

    Quote Originally Posted by CorditeCrazy View Post
    Those that profit from the current system will like to Hoodwink you into thinking any other system is folly.
    When the system was going to implode, it was those amongst us that rushed to consult and make things work to prop up a system to disarm us.

    ( the artisans that installed the gas ducts to exterminate the Jews and others for the Nazis were only doing their jobs well weren't they)
    live out your imagination , not your history.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Licence the person, Register the Firearm

    Quote Originally Posted by DS View Post
    Registering instead of licencing the firearm is not necessarily going to be a less onerous process and it is going to depend on what "regsitration" means and entails. Has "registration" been defined?
    Think drivers licence...renew that bugger every few years, and register as many cars as your heart desires...dealers even send runners to do it for you. SAPS was supposed to have some online connectivity years ago allowing dealers to update shit...that hasn't happened...

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