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  1. #21

    Default Re: Use of Deadly Force in Self-Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by curious george View Post
    I'll respectfully call you an idiot then, read my post again, I have been in such a situation and telling you how it works in reality land.
    I'm sorry you've been in that situation, but it's irrelevant. All we're talking about here is the circumstances of a shooting and how those circumstances would be interpreted in a court. Given the OP's video, it's reasonable to ask how a a court will judge this. Have you really never encountered someone acting in self defense being charged with attempted murder? It's fairly common.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Use of Deadly Force in Self-Defense

    On a personal note, I know of a shop keeper who was attacked in his store earlier this week.

    At least 5 BG's overpowered staff and customers, cable-tied everyone and proceeded to work (i.e.: kick and punch) the manager; mostly for the heck of it.

    They left but returned seconds later and stabbed him in the back while he was still face down on the floor; hands still cable tied.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Use of Deadly Force in Self-Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceOfficer View Post
    Seeing as this thread has now totally lost it's original purpose of sharing a Mas Ayood knowledge bomb.

    With reference to the Twitter video whilst bearing in mind what ye good ol Mas had to say:-

    • The employee was not the one who initiated the incident
    • The employee had no means of retreat/escape
    • The employee was at a numerical disadvantage
    • The employee was in a position of weakness
    • It is conceivable that the thugs brandished weapons as they made entry to exert force and establish control/compliance


    On the face of it, there's enough data to support the idea that the employee had real reason to fear for his life and possibly that of other staff members in the store. So no, I would definitely not say this was attempted murder. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

    Remember, compliance does not guarantee safety.
    Thanks, Peace and sorry to derail, though I do think they're linked. I agree with your points, I was simply trying to understand how a court may view that particular incident given pillars mentioned in your video. I reckon we should all engage with these sorts of examples to fully appreciate how the law responds to self defence.

    Nowhere did I say the shooter was in the wrong. We need to apply the thought in your video.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Use of Deadly Force in Self-Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by WessonCountry View Post
    I'm sorry you've been in that situation, but it's irrelevant. All we're talking about here is the circumstances of a shooting and how those circumstances would be interpreted in a court. Given the OP's video, it's reasonable to ask how a a court will judge this. Have you really never encountered someone acting in self defense being charged with attempted murder? It's fairly common.
    I think you may be confusing an inquest document for a murder document. This is commonly misunderstood - in no small part due to poor reporting in the media.

    The cops will have to open an inquest document, perform the necessary investigation and pending the findings that inquest could get upgraded to a case of attempted murder (legal eagles will correct me here).

  5. #25

    Default Re: Use of Deadly Force in Self-Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceOfficer View Post
    I think you may be confusing an inquest document for a murder document. This is commonly misunderstood - in no small part due to poor reporting in the media.

    The cops will have to open an inquest document, perform the necessary investigation and pending the findings that inquest could get upgraded to a case of attempted murder (legal eagles will correct me here).
    Really good clarification, thanks mate. Any idea how often inquests turn into charges? Would be interesting to know what the attitude of Constable Average is to self defense.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Use of Deadly Force in Self-Defense

    Jesus guys. Why dogpile on the new guy like a pack of hungry hyenas? He asked a legitimate question. You wonder why most of the old members have left? Be better.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Use of Deadly Force in Self-Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by WessonCountry View Post
    Really good clarification, thanks mate. Any idea how often inquests turn into charges? Would be interesting to know what the attitude of Constable Average is to self defense.
    None, sorry.

    I think it comes down to the combination between the shooter's/defender's attitude when the cops arrive and whether or not the cops arriving are predisposed to going hard on "subjects".

    From my personal interactions with chaps who have been involved in shootings, none of them have had a murder charged raised immediately. Anecdotally, of course, there's a thousand incidents related where defenders have been "charged with murder by the cops for shooting the home invader". I think we all now understand that that "murder charge" is infact a inquest docket.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Use of Deadly Force in Self-Defense

    Docket - not document. Sorry about that.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Use of Deadly Force in Self-Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by WessonCountry View Post
    Made stuff up? This is a thread about how the judiciary may interpret the use of lethal force. Who's defending the attackers? The only point I made was that a judge could reasonably make a call either way based on the footage... again, in reference to the OP. If you cannot see how others may interpret your actions, why should anyone trust you to make life or death decisions?
    Again wrong. I am sure, or at least hopeful that a judge would come to the conclusion that the video is incomplete.

    And then to top it all you say I am incompetent because I cannot infer details of which I have only limited info, is your opinion.

    No worries man. You carry on.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Use of Deadly Force in Self-Defense

    While we're at it, I think it's also necessary for us to bear in mind that just because the attacker is retreating it does not mean that he is no longer a threat. He could very well pop off a couple of rounds to cover his escape.

    Tying in with that, shooting an attacker in the back is not a 100%-to-go-jail card. I know this is a big one in the "defensive-gun-use-myth hall of fame".

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