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  1. #111

    Default Re: Drinking while carrying

    Quote Originally Posted by GORBY View Post
    I had the opportunity to do a "braai shoot" (invitation only event) late last year. At a private range with qualified instructor. Shot beforehand to set benchmark.

    Lighted the fire and had a beer. Shot another round. Put meat on grill with another beer, and shoot another round, etc......... Everyone drank at own pace and between shoots just sat around fire braaing and chatting away (as per a normal braai at home). Went on till last shoot after 6th beer. (Instructor and "sidekick" sticked with the Oros).

    I unfortunately did not keep copy of exact times and scores (and obviously not uploaded as activity on NATSHOOT), but the general trend was:
    1st 2 beers: Slightly slower with slightly better accuracy as "clean"
    3 beers: Time about the same as with 1&2 beers, but accuracy deteriorated
    From 4th beer onwards all went pear-shaped (still hit the targets, but time and accuracy not even comparable to previous)

    I am not advocating having a dop before precision shooting (or for that matter drinking and shooting at all), but it was a very insightful exercise in a controlled environment for me.

    Although I am told I can handle my liquor quite well (hold my pose) I am not a "hard drinker" and my limit is usually 1.5 beers on occasion. Some of the heavier/regular drinkers shooting deteriorated faster than me, and others had no effect against their benchmark at the end of their sixpack. It therefore seems that it depends on individual, and not necessarily how many you had.

    Granted it was not a scientific experiment, but interesting to do and experience and observe the others nonetheless.
    Very interesting, reminds me of how darts players in the 80s would have a beer to steady their hand initially....unfortunately performance then went as per the rest of your description

  2. #112
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    Default Re: Drinking while carrying

    Seems a standard thing in regard to alcohol, the pool players also feel a drink of your own measurement improves playing almost without doubt, then ability deteriorates there after from drink number "X" depending on the individual.

    I have often seen among the old school Afrikaans guys when hunting a shot being taken before the hunt, when asked I was told it calms the shaking. I remember the ou ooms would have it in their coffee or just like a medicine, straight down gone. None of them drank further during the day that I know of.
    All the "ou Ooms" are now gone, and I only know one guy who has a tot of whiskey before going into velt.

    In days gone by, before all the testing etc, the Oval track racers would also often have a medicinal drink before driving, said it made them more calculating and less spontaneous.

    Me I drink more than most, but I am very fearful of alcohol, its like a loaded gun it is.
    When drinking:
    Do not entertain arguments.
    Do not pass a judgement.
    Make no promises.
    Except no plans, no promises from others.
    Do NOT tell her you love here.
    Make no agreements nor decisions.
    Always be aware, remind self of the fact - you are drinking, you have been drinking.

    Drink your drink, mind your business and leave other people alone - there is tomorrow to deal with any disagreement.

  3. #113
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    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Western Cape
    Posts
    654

    Default Re: Drinking while carrying

    Straight shooting juice...

  4. #114

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by treeman View Post
    Seems a standard thing in regard to alcohol, the pool players also feel a drink of your own measurement improves playing almost without doubt, then ability deteriorates there after from drink number "X" depending on the individual.

    I have often seen among the old school Afrikaans guys when hunting a shot being taken before the hunt, when asked I was told it calms the shaking. I remember the ou ooms would have it in their coffee or just like a medicine, straight down gone. None of them drank further during the day that I know of.
    All the "ou Ooms" are now gone, and I only know one guy who has a tot of whiskey before going into velt.

    In days gone by, before all the testing etc, the Oval track racers would also often have a medicinal drink before driving, said it made them more calculating and less spontaneous.

    Me I drink more than most, but I am very fearful of alcohol, its like a loaded gun it is.
    When drinking:
    Do not entertain arguments.
    Do not pass a judgement.
    Make no promises.
    Except no plans, no promises from others.
    Do NOT tell her you love here.
    Make no agreements nor decisions.
    Always be aware, remind self of the fact - you are drinking, you have been drinking.

    Drink your drink, mind your business and leave other people alone - there is tomorrow to deal with any disagreement.
    I find a few beers with mates is just for that - socialising. If you have to be so guarded about relaxing with mates, what's the point? We're not talking about getting punchy, some okes can't handle their dop, I know. It's not about sitting down and getting the dop down your neck in a quiet corner. But if it its changing your personality, maybe just drink less or not at all? Just a thought.
    With regards carrying, don't ask, don't tell

  5. #115
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    Default Re: Drinking while carrying

    Quote Originally Posted by Springer View Post
    I find a few beers with mates is just for that - socialising. If you have to be so guarded about relaxing with mates, what's the point? We're not talking about getting punchy, some okes can't handle their dop, I know. It's not about sitting down and getting the dop down your neck in a quiet corner. But if it its changing your personality, maybe just drink less or not at all? Just a thought.
    With regards carrying, don't ask, don't tell
    **********************
    You are quiet correct sir.

  6. #116

    Default Re: Drinking while carrying

    Quote Originally Posted by WessonCountry View Post
    I don't disagree with this - and work in some far more dangerous places than SA to boot, where I enjoy a couple beers to relax in the evening - but we have to have balance and not give in to fear all the time.
    Correct it is all about striking the balance ,, Like most things in Life

  7. #117
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    Centurion
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    334

    Default Re: Drinking while carrying

    Quote Originally Posted by treeman View Post
    Seems a standard thing in regard to alcohol, the pool players also feel a drink of your own measurement improves playing almost without doubt, then ability deteriorates there after from drink number "X" depending on the individual.

    I have often seen among the old school Afrikaans guys when hunting a shot being taken before the hunt, when asked I was told it calms the shaking. I remember the ou ooms would have it in their coffee or just like a medicine, straight down gone. None of them drank further during the day that I know of.
    All the "ou Ooms" are now gone, and I only know one guy who has a tot of whiskey before going into velt.

    In days gone by, before all the testing etc, the Oval track racers would also often have a medicinal drink before driving, said it made them more calculating and less spontaneous.

    Me I drink more than most, but I am very fearful of alcohol, its like a loaded gun it is.
    When drinking:
    Do not entertain arguments.
    Do not pass a judgement.
    Make no promises.
    Except no plans, no promises from others.
    Do NOT tell her you love here.
    Make no agreements nor decisions.
    Always be aware, remind self of the fact - you are drinking, you have been drinking.

    Drink your drink, mind your business and leave other people alone - there is tomorrow to deal with any disagreement.

    I use to tell people to do what they say they are going to do while drunk.....it teaches you to keep your trap shut!

  8. #118
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    Nov 2020
    Location
    Pretoria
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: Drinking while carrying

    This thread gave some interesting reading (especially some on the S13vs15vs16 interpretations).

    However back to the topic. Very recently someone was arrested because he was handling his firearm under the influence. The facts are briefly (the case is sub judice - so I will only give bear minimum), the guy did have a few drinks, he was a passenger and police pulled them over. He indicated he had a licensed firearm, police apparently grabbed at the firearm and he instinctively grabbed the Police officers arm. End result he was arrested for handing a firearm under the influence... Whenever this is sorted I will give full facts and end result (but could be a year or more as you know our courts).

    But moral of the story as many already indicated - if you drink and you have want to keep you firearm on you, you better act responsible or consider if that drink is worth it..

    On another note - our Law does have a construct of a reasonable man principle. It is used as follows. You are not allowed to speed, however if are transporting someone who is busy dying from say a open bleeding wound, the speeding (if caught and be tried) could be excused. This is called when 2 rights are weighed up against each other...was the one justifiable broken to protect another?

    The same I believe in my opinion, would happen if you had a braai and a drink and a "booswig/rampokker" threatens you or someone's life and you protect it with the use of you FA. You contravening one would then be weighed up. Again if you then caused the death of an innocent person because you were so gekletter/or even remotely tipsy and they (SAPS) proof it, your life's decisions and were you end up will be on you.

  9. #119
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    Mar 2020
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    Default Re: Drinking while carrying

    Quote Originally Posted by SASwart View Post
    This thread gave some interesting reading (especially some on the S13vs15vs16 interpretations).

    However back to the topic. Very recently someone was arrested because he was handling his firearm under the influence. The facts are briefly (the case is sub judice - so I will only give bear minimum), the guy did have a few drinks, he was a passenger and police pulled them over. He indicated he had a licensed firearm, police apparently grabbed at the firearm and he instinctively grabbed the Police officers arm. End result he was arrested for handing a firearm under the influence... Whenever this is sorted I will give full facts and end result (but could be a year or more as you know our courts).

    But moral of the story as many already indicated - if you drink and you have want to keep you firearm on you, you better act responsible or consider if that drink is worth it..

    On another note - our Law does have a construct of a reasonable man principle. It is used as follows. You are not allowed to speed, however if are transporting someone who is busy dying from say a open bleeding wound, the speeding (if caught and be tried) could be excused. This is called when 2 rights are weighed up against each other...was the one justifiable broken to protect another?

    The same I believe in my opinion, would happen if you had a braai and a drink and a "booswig/rampokker" threatens you or someone's life and you protect it with the use of you FA. You contravening one would then be weighed up. Again if you then caused the death of an innocent person because you were so gekletter/or even remotely tipsy and they (SAPS) proof it, your life's decisions and were you end up will be on you.
    Anyone grabbing for anyone else's legal firearm is an idiot and shouldn't have a badge.

  10. #120

    Default Re: Drinking while carrying

    Quote Originally Posted by SASwart View Post
    This thread gave some interesting reading (especially some on the S13vs15vs16 interpretations).

    However back to the topic. Very recently someone was arrested because he was handling his firearm under the influence. The facts are briefly (the case is sub judice - so I will only give bear minimum), the guy did have a few drinks, he was a passenger and police pulled them over. He indicated he had a licensed firearm, police apparently grabbed at the firearm and he instinctively grabbed the Police officers arm. End result he was arrested for handing a firearm under the influence... Whenever this is sorted I will give full facts and end result (but could be a year or more as you know our courts).

    But moral of the story as many already indicated - if you drink and you have want to keep you firearm on you, you better act responsible or consider if that drink is worth it..

    On another note - our Law does have a construct of a reasonable man principle. It is used as follows. You are not allowed to speed, however if are transporting someone who is busy dying from say a open bleeding wound, the speeding (if caught and be tried) could be excused. This is called when 2 rights are weighed up against each other...was the one justifiable broken to protect another?

    The same I believe in my opinion, would happen if you had a braai and a drink and a "booswig/rampokker" threatens you or someone's life and you protect it with the use of you FA. You contravening one would then be weighed up. Again if you then caused the death of an innocent person because you were so gekletter/or even remotely tipsy and they (SAPS) proof it, your life's decisions and were you end up will be on you.
    This was covered during our competency training, actually: the instructor made the point that using a firearm to defend yourself when intoxicated will not automatically be viewed as negligence and that the legal precedent supports this (im not in a position to confirm that or otherwise). However, if you're under the influence of narcotics - presumably including weed? - this is considered negligence. Again, not a lawyer or familiar with the precedent.

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