Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 50
  1. #11

    Default Re: 6.8 Western cartridge

    Quote Originally Posted by Messor View Post
    I suspect nothing will come of it in SA, seeing as it’s a hunting cartridge.

    Firstly, it’s not a gong cartridge, shooting high BC bullets means nothing when the recoil is too much.
    Even in the states most PRS guys use 6mm not 6.5 anymore, for that same reason, you want BC not recoil.
    Secondly if it won’t be used for that purpose how many people are going to buy 175gr 270 bullets, or buying 1:7.5 barrels?
    I suspect not many, hence how will the market be created for components like these?

    Nice to have, for sure, realistic for people in SA, not so sure.
    I will buy one specific for hunting in the Kalahari. As much fun as the 300 win mag is ...... I reload and tin emptied in 1/2 cups is rather expensive. Also, below 150m the damage is noted ......My sons are also starting to hunt so will add to 308 arsenal ...... 6.8 is better option for me compared to both 300wm and 300 wsm at 300 WSM but as said ...270 always pops up. As for recoil on the 6.5 ...please ....nee man

  2. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Vereeniging
    Age
    70
    Posts
    5,782

    Default Re: 6.8 Western cartridge

    African, the recoil mentioned with the PRS shooting at 900m, even with muzzle brakes, is just enough so that the impact is not so easy to see. The 6mm makes that possible. Remember that this is not hunting or impact on the shoulder, but very specific to this shooting discipline.

  3. #13
    User
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    BFN Freestate
    Age
    45
    Posts
    12,151

    Default Re: 6.8 Western cartridge

    Quote Originally Posted by African View Post
    I will buy one specific for hunting in the Kalahari. As much fun as the 300 win mag is ...... I reload and tin emptied in 1/2 cups is rather expensive. Also, below 150m the damage is noted ......My sons are also starting to hunt so will add to 308 arsenal ...... 6.8 is better option for me compared to both 300wm and 300 wsm at 300 WSM but as said ...270 always pops up. As for recoil on the 6.5 ...please ....nee man
    Meat damage is the result of speed and bullets that comes apart, this means neither of the attributes the western provides will help you under 150m.
    The extra BC will mean more retained MV, and bullets made for this caliber will almost certainly be long range softpoint bullets, no mono's or premium bondeds, as this cartridge is almost certainly designed to be a long range hunting cartridge.

    The trend worldwide is to snipe animals, not to hunt them, I can almost guarantee this is a niche cartridge designed for specifically that, any old 308 is just fine for real hunting.

    As for recoil, I am a 338 shooter, I was merely highlighting target shooting.

    But, as I said, I seriously doubt this cartridge will get a foothold in africa, and I would love to be wrong on this one as I am fond of .277 things.

  4. #14

    Default Re: 6.8 Western cartridge

    Some truth to what you say but not complete .... meat damage ...only a fool hunts with bullets that break up. Sure recipe for disaster so here not an issue for me but ........ hydrostatic shock at higher velocity causes significantly more meat damage as speeds increase. Under 150m, 300 win mag is know to destroy more meat.

    Also, consider that a high BC at longer range allows more speed to be carried at long ranges due to superior BC and thus less bullet drop.

    Looking at 300 win mag 180gr ......3160 fps at mussel and 400yards is 2492 fps ....400m is is my personal hunting limit so your snipe comment noted but not valid in my case. Zero at 200 yards and bullet drop is 25.6 inches

    Now look at 6.8 western with 175 gr bullet is 2835 fps and at 400 yards doing 2265 fps. 200 yards zero see 20.1 inch drop.

    Compare to my venerable 308 ..... bullet drop on a 165 gr leaves barrel at 2650 fps ...... at 400 yards paddling ahead at 1801 fps........bullet drop is 33 inches with 200 yards zero

    But when compared to the venerable 270 at 400m ...... trajectory of a 130gr (270 Win) is similar to a 170gr (6.8 Western). .... in fact 6.8 Western is steaming at 2265 fps (start was 2835 fps) and 270 win is now 2231 fps (start was 3050 fps) In my books that is what I am looking for.

    Above is an academic exercise but time will tell. I love the 338 lapua and find recoil tame compared to the 300win mag heavier loads that kick the snot right out of me. But this is my opinion and personal experience and not stated here as fact or proof or anything.

  5. #15

    Default Re: 6.8 Western cartridge

    Quote Originally Posted by driepootx View Post
    African, the recoil mentioned with the PRS shooting at 900m, even with muzzle brakes, is just enough so that the impact is not so easy to see. The 6mm makes that possible. Remember that this is not hunting or impact on the shoulder, but very specific to this shooting discipline.
    Thank you meneer. As much as I like paper punching - biltong beats that ;-) What can I say ....I ham a simple man.

  6. #16
    User
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    BFN Freestate
    Age
    45
    Posts
    12,151

    Default Re: 6.8 Western cartridge

    Quote Originally Posted by African View Post
    Some truth to what you say but not complete .... meat damage ...only a fool hunts with bullets that break up. Sure recipe for disaster so here not an issue for me but ........ hydrostatic shock at higher velocity causes significantly more meat damage as speeds increase. Under 150m, 300 win mag is know to destroy more meat.

    Also, consider that a high BC at longer range allows more speed to be carried at long ranges due to superior BC and thus less bullet drop.

    Looking at 300 win mag 180gr ......3160 fps at mussel and 400yards is 2492 fps ....400m is is my personal hunting limit so your snipe comment noted but not valid in my case. Zero at 200 yards and bullet drop is 25.6 inches

    Now look at 6.8 western with 175 gr bullet is 2835 fps and at 400 yards doing 2265 fps. 200 yards zero see 20.1 inch drop.

    Compare to my venerable 308 ..... bullet drop on a 165 gr leaves barrel at 2650 fps ...... at 400 yards paddling ahead at 1801 fps........bullet drop is 33 inches with 200 yards zero

    But when compared to the venerable 270 at 400m ...... trajectory of a 130gr (270 Win) is similar to a 170gr (6.8 Western). .... in fact 6.8 Western is steaming at 2265 fps (start was 2835 fps) and 270 win is now 2231 fps (start was 3050 fps) In my books that is what I am looking for.

    Above is an academic exercise but time will tell. I love the 338 lapua and find recoil tame compared to the 300win mag heavier loads that kick the snot right out of me. But this is my opinion and personal experience and not stated here as fact or proof or anything.

    It does beg the question what exactly you want to hunt with it.
    There is absolutely no antelope my 270 won’t kill with its current Barnes load, nothing.
    However should I be required to hunt eland, zebra or blue wildebeest at distance I would take my 338Winmag any day of the week, it’s perfect for that, I also would not consider the western for that purpose.

    This makes it difficult, for any normal hunting up to 400m the 270win is just fine, however for any big bodied antelope, like the three I mentioned, I doubt any PH here would consider the western an ideal cartridge for that, or even a suitable one at that.

    So where does the western fit in then in this scenario?
    I dunno.

  7. #17

    Default Re: 6.8 Western cartridge

    I noted on the list - Red Hartebeest and Gemsbuck missing. I think your comments have some validity but note that bullet weight and caliber are related but not the same.

    Note weight and bullet speeds are important but so is caliber. Again look at 270 at 400yards ...... trajectory of a 130gr (270 Win) is similar to a 170gr (6.8 Western). .... in fact 6.8 Western is steaming at 2265 fps (start was 2835 fps at start) and 270 win is now 2231 fps (start was 3050 fps) In my books that is what I am looking for...... Weight and speed (assuming good bullet construction) gives penetration. Compare distance, bullet weight and retained bullet speed and your comment on 270 fails the test completely. I would not shoot at oryx or blue wildebeest with a 130gr in any caliber. At 170 gr the 6.8 Western will do just fine.

    338 Win mag ....... Hmmmm ..... not for the big five as per law and the 300win mag takes zebra, blue wildebeest and eland with same ease. If I am looking at bigger than 300 calibers, I would opt for a 375. Dream is 375 H&H but 375 Ruger is a close second. Upside is big 5 capable. Cannot afford big 5 or the 375 so mute point.

    Looking at your comments - would say you know academic data on calibers but hunting applications not so sure
    but don't worry, I am often proven wrong ...that's how I learn. Your comments on PH's....... my experience .... Few are really good .....most are opiniated and most are stuck in the past. Even considering they will know what the 6.8 Western is and lets be realistic, they won't...less likely to understand what they read and lets be reasonable ...... most are set in their ways and have many opinions based on emotions and not necessarily on data. I tend to favor a more scientific approach to study data on both old and new and listen to factually based analysis. ....moment I hear ...."I feel...." you have lost me.

    That said.. I believe use what you have and not jump on the latest band wagon. As I am looking for a medium caliber hunting rifle the 6.8 came along .... not replacing another caliber but looks like it fits my needs. Your needs may be different …YMMV

  8. #18
    User
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Boland
    Posts
    7,985

    Default Re: 6.8 Western cartridge

    How to win friends and influence people...



    ...anyways, so what we have is 6.8mm rifle with a fast twist. Why would one need a whole new cartridge? Would a 270W or a 270WSM with that same twist barrel not do the same job?

  9. #19
    User
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    BFN Freestate
    Age
    45
    Posts
    12,151

    Default Re: 6.8 Western cartridge

    Quote Originally Posted by African View Post
    I would not shoot at oryx or blue wildebeest with a 130gr in any caliber. At 170 gr the 6.8 Western will do just fine.

    I don’t really get what you are saying.

    You won’t shoot at an animal like oryx or BWB with a 270 using 130gr monolithic bullets but you will shoot it with 170gr bullets out of the western, where the only 3 avail bullets for the western in 170gr is the ballistic silvertip, a matchking bullet, and the 170 berger, all whom the 130gr will easily out penetrate, easily.

    Seems I am getting confused with data vs hunting applications again, we need a PH to clarify.

  10. #20

    Default Re: 6.8 Western cartridge

    Quote Originally Posted by Messor View Post
    I don’t really get what you are saying.

    You won’t shoot at an animal like oryx or BWB with a 270 using 130gr monolithic bullets but you will shoot it with 170gr bullets out of the western, where the only 3 avail bullets for the western in 170gr is the ballistic silvertip, a matchking bullet, and the 170 berger, all whom the 130gr will easily out penetrate, easily.

    Seems I am getting confused with data vs hunting applications again, we need a PH to clarify.
    If we need a PH we are FUBAR.

    Working on 1 gr = 0.065 gram

    Lets make it very simple ........ 270 shoots a 130gr bullet at 350 m/s ....energy is 1/2 mass x velocity squared = 521J

    6.8 Western shoots 170gr also 350 m/s ..... energy is now 673J

    The 130gr will not out penetrate the 170gr at the same speed unless catastrophic bullet failure .... because it has less energy...simple. What you state is factually incorrect and defies physics. 29% more energy in western at 400 yards than 270.........if I throw you with 2 objects at the same speed ...say 5 km/h ....would you prefer a table tennis ball or a brick .......Also noted, high BC in 170gr will not stablize in 270 and although same dia bullets, 6.8 comes into it's own with very long high BC bullets.

    I am not saying any is better ....... I think that the 6.8 Western on paper makes sense as I am looking for something in the 270/6.8 range .... As for bullet availability, any new caliber has a limited range of bullets at launch ....... or in very simple terms... above the near exact discussion you can have about 6.5 Swedish vs 6.5 Creedmoor. When Creedmoor launched, very few bullets ... and now a lot more for Creedmoor.

    It is now important who is right ....it is important what is right.....think about that. I would shoot an oryx at 380 yards with a 170gr western and no, I will not shoot the same gemsbuck with a 130gr at the same bullet speed because it lacks punch.....above based om simple physics and not an opinion....backed by above.

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •