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  1. #21
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    Default Re: 6.8 Western cartridge

    Energy don't give penetration. Retained momentum does. Energy does however deform (and when in excess, break) bullets. To retain momentum the bullet needs to retain as much of it's initial mass as possible. Soft lead-core bullets impacting at high speeds are not going to do that, while a 130gr mono will in all probability retain its full mass.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: 6.8 Western cartridge

    Messor, just keep on hunting with your .308 and enjoy your hunts with the .270 and .338 in between. I will keep on hunting with my 30-06 loaded to .308 velocities and also enjoy my hunting. These grand new calibers have 0 advantage in the hunting field IMO.

    With any of the following "normal" calibres any hunter is sorted IF he places the shot correctly and to do that he must know his rifle and load combination. None of them have any "special" features attributed to them, but all of them will do the job any day. Who calls shooting an animal at 400 + meters hunting in any case?

    .243
    .25-06
    .270
    7x57
    .308
    .30-06
    300 Win
    8x68S
    .338
    .375
    .416 Rigby

    For serious target shooting (which is a great sport. I am not taking anything away from those perfectionist shots. I admire them.), go for it. But from the wee little bit I know about this sport, the 6.8 Western will recoil too much and that is making me to believe it will not be a hit.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: 6.8 Western cartridge

    Quote Originally Posted by African View Post
    I noted on the list - Red Hartebeest and Gemsbuck missing. I think your comments have some validity but note that bullet weight and caliber are related but not the same.

    Note weight and bullet speeds are important but so is caliber. Again look at 270 at 400yards ...... trajectory of a 130gr (270 Win) is similar to a 170gr (6.8 Western). .... in fact 6.8 Western is steaming at 2265 fps (start was 2835 fps at start) and 270 win is now 2231 fps (start was 3050 fps) In my books that is what I am looking for...... Weight and speed (assuming good bullet construction) gives penetration. Compare distance, bullet weight and retained bullet speed and your comment on 270 fails the test completely. I would not shoot at oryx or blue wildebeest with a 130gr in any caliber. At 170 gr the 6.8 Western will do just fine.

    338 Win mag ....... Hmmmm ..... not for the big five as per law and the 300win mag takes zebra, blue wildebeest and eland with same ease. If I am looking at bigger than 300 calibers, I would opt for a 375. Dream is 375 H&H but 375 Ruger is a close second. Upside is big 5 capable. Cannot afford big 5 or the 375 so mute point.

    Looking at your comments - would say you know academic data on calibers but hunting applications not so sure
    but don't worry, I am often proven wrong ...that's how I learn. Your comments on PH's....... my experience .... Few are really good .....most are opiniated and most are stuck in the past. Even considering they will know what the 6.8 Western is and lets be realistic, they won't...less likely to understand what they read and lets be reasonable ...... most are set in their ways and have many opinions based on emotions and not necessarily on data. I tend to favor a more scientific approach to study data on both old and new and listen to factually based analysis. ....moment I hear ...."I feel...." you have lost me.

    That said.. I believe use what you have and not jump on the latest band wagon. As I am looking for a medium caliber hunting rifle the 6.8 came along .... not replacing another caliber but looks like it fits my needs. Your needs may be different …YMMV
    From practical hunting experience, bullet construction is far more important than bullet weight. Some practical examples:

    1) In my 7x57, 130gr Barnes-X and 130gr Peregrine VRG-4 bullets penetrate deeper in large antelope (notably eland but including many blue wildebeest and gemsbok) than the 170gr PMP, the 170gr Sierra Pro-hunter and the 175gr Hornady Interlock.
    2) In my 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5x55, the 115gr Ballistix, the 118gr Peregrine VLR-4, the 120gr Peregrine VRG-4 and the 120gr Hornady GMX (all monometal expanding bullets) penetrate better than the 140gr Sierra Gameking, the 140gr Hornady Interlock, the 140gr Hornady A-max and the 143gr Hornady ELD-X in the larger antelope (again including eland, gemsbok, blue- and black wildebeest, waterbuck and zebra) And yes, I do know that a zebra is not an antelope, despite being a PH.
    3) In my .300 win mag the 165gr Barnes TTSX, 165 gr Hornady GMX, 180gr Barnes TSX and 180gr Hornady GMX penetrated notably better in eland and other large antelope than the 200gr Hornady ELD-x and the 220gr Hornady Interlock.
    The above is especially true where heavy bone and/or muscle was hit.

    I am a PH and I am opinionated. (There is no such word as opiniated.)
    I do know about the 6.8 Western.
    I am actually surprisingly literate despite being a PH.
    My opinions are based on literally thousands of bullets (of multiple designs ranging from target bullets to expanding monolithic bullets and non-expanding bullets) fired into literally thousands of animals, both by me and clients.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: 6.8 Western cartridge

    I’ve never understood the criticism of others as being opinionated while at the same time delivering a very definite opinion?

  5. #25
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    Default Re: 6.8 Western cartridge

    Quote Originally Posted by Adoons View Post
    Messor, just keep on hunting with your .308 and enjoy your hunts with the .270 and .338 in between. I will keep on hunting with my 30-06 loaded to .308 velocities and also enjoy my hunting. These grand new calibers have 0 advantage in the hunting field IMO.

    With any of the following "normal" calibres any hunter is sorted IF he places the shot correctly and to do that he must know his rifle and load combination. None of them have any "special" features attributed to them, but all of them will do the job any day. Who calls shooting an animal at 400 + meters hunting in any case?

    .243
    .25-06
    .270
    7x57
    .308
    .30-06
    300 Win
    8x68S
    .338
    .375
    .416 Rigby

    For serious target shooting (which is a great sport. I am not taking anything away from those perfectionist shots. I admire them.), go for it. But from the wee little bit I know about this sport, the 6.8 Western will recoil too much and that is making me to believe it will not be a hit.
    ****************
    You have pretty much just said what messor has always said ??

  6. #26
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    Default Re: 6.8 Western cartridge

    With any of the following "normal" calibres any hunter is sorted IF he places the shot correctly and to do that he must know his rifle and load combination. None of them have any "special" features attributed to them, but all of them will do the job any day. Who calls shooting an animal at 400 + meters hunting in any case?

    .243
    .25-06
    .270
    7x57
    .308
    .303
    .30-06
    300 Win
    8x68S
    .338
    .375
    .416 Rigby

    Adoons I fixed it for you its only a pleasure

  7. #27
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    Default Re: 6.8 Western cartridge

    Now that all the shots have been fired, time to reflect on what I believe this cartridge can do for the normal hunter, and by that I mean people that hunt animals not long range sniping.

    You’ll probably be able to shoot a 150gr Barnes TSX at 3100 ft/s, you’ll be able to shoot a 160gr Nosler partition at 3000ft/s, and you’ll be able to shoot a 180gr Woodleigh at 2800ft/s.

    Yes, those are all existing 270 bullets.
    And even opinionated PH guys would be comfortable with those combo’s on larger animals.

    That is more than enough for any antelope, all heavily constructed bullets, not some newfangled BC long range sniping bullets.
    Essentially it won’t replace any of the 30 cal cartridges, but it will offer a lot for the person wanting something else, and man, those Browning X-bolt rifles are beauts.
    The x-bolt mountain for example comes in at 6 lbs, every bit a hunting rifle.

    Will we see them, dunno, would every sane person want one, yes.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: 6.8 Western cartridge

    Quote Originally Posted by treeman View Post
    ****************
    You have pretty much just said what messor has always said ??
    Yes. When sanity are speaking it sometimes needs to be heard from somebody else as well to prevail.

    We all know Messors view on the matter. I am just stating that I agree.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: 6.8 Western cartridge

    I have been scratching on an American forum and the array of calibres used for hunting is just astounding. I did not even know of a 300 Lapua Mag as I have never been asked to do some QL calcs with it. There are so many 6,5's mentioned (the Creed is in the minority) and I am not even sure what they are. Speed is being seriously chased and I wonder how many are not shot at proofing pressures.

    If a barrel does not shoot 0,5 MOA then the owner just casually mentions that it will be replaced. I believe that it costs about $450 to do that, excluding barrel price. Just imagine paying R1000 for barrel replacement.

  10. #30

    Default Re: 6.8 Western cartridge

    Quote Originally Posted by Pirate View Post
    Energy don't give penetration. Retained momentum does. Energy does however deform (and when in excess, break) bullets. To retain momentum the bullet needs to retain as much of it's initial mass as possible. Soft lead-core bullets impacting at high speeds are not going to do that, while a 130gr mono will in all probability retain its full mass.
    Momentum is mass x speed and energy is 1/2 x mass x speed squared so utter nonsense on penetration as they are related. I never mentioned a soft lead vs monolythics so lets try and compare apples to apples here.

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