Will you be getting a COVID-19 vaccine?

[SLR]

SLR, you are sidestepping my original question.

I can go use any country with a high vaccination rate, my point was SA which does not have that, the virus comes and goes as it pleases, its mostly gone now.
Yes the idiot media will say that is because of vaccinations, but that is merely a lie, our graphs mirrors that of other countries, vaccines have no effect on the spread of the virus at all.

YES, I understand that deaths are lower in vaccinated countries, I never disputed that and hence you cannot bring that into the debate.
My point being that as an epidemiologist you cannot explain the virus behavior in relation to the vaccines, definitely not here in SA.

It just tells me that if we left the damn virus alone from day one, we would have been over it a year and a half ago, with no economic loss.

Can't explain when it is practically the same shape as last year?

Peak in early mid July followed by a sharp decrease into September

We don't have a high enough vax rate to attribute the shape of the new infection graph to it when we can compare to last year and our weather / behaviour.

The important question is, at both peak and low infections , what are the deaths doing and what are the proportions within those infected / hospitalised / dying.

I don't think we would be over it, but probably in almost the same place now without our stupid lock down rules.

And more capital/ goodwill to get actually effective means of protecting the vulnerable

[Gleock]

Can't explain when it is practically the same shape as last year?

Peak in early mid July followed by a sharp decrease into September

We don't have a high enough vax rate to attribute the shape of the new infection graph to it when we can compare to last year and our weather / behaviour.

The important question is, at both peak and low infections , what are the deaths doing and what are the proportions within those infected / hospitalised / dying.

I don't think we would be over it, but probably in almost the same place now without our stupid lock down rules.

And more capital/ goodwill to get actually effective means of protecting the vulnerable

You need to remember that everyone here is arguing against these vaccines from the point of mandatory vaccinations and passports.
I don't think anyone has argued that the vaccines haven't reduced reported covid deaths in risk groups for the short term.

The worldwide narrative is that we need vaccinations to get back to normal, where the real world data from places like Israel might be showing reduced deaths, but it is by no means showing any return to normal as far as infections are concerned.
Which takes us back to the argument of why force vaccinate healthy people that are not in a risk group?

[jimmyh]

3 spikes, 3 waves and 3 vareints.

[FFourie]

The focus should change to getting out of the ridiculous lockdown cycle and it is obvious that vax rates are not going to do it. There will always be infections and more booster shots required.

Mass action and widespread rejection of all lockdown mandates can make it happen. By all accounts lockdown regulations in the townships are non-existent already.

[dammitgriff]

‘Despite Over 95% Vaxx'd, Harvard Business School Shifts Classes Online After "Substantial Outbreak" Of COVID’

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/h...outbreak-covid

[dammitgriff]

List of adverse effects known to the FDA before the emergency approval:

1. Guillain-Barré syndrome

2. Acute disseminated encephalomyelitis

3. Transverse myelitis

4. Encephalitis/encephalomyelitis/meningoencephalitis/meningitis/encepholapathy

5. Convulsions/seizures

6. Stroke

7. Narcolepsy and cataplexy

8. Anaphylaxis

9. Acute myocardial infraction

10. Myocarditis/pericarditis

11. Autoimmune disease

12. Death

13. Pregnancy and birth outcomes

14. Other acute demyelinating diseases

15. Non-anaphylactic allergic reactions

16. Thrombocytopenia

17. Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation (DIC)

18. Venous thromboembolism

19. Arthritis and arthralgia/joint pain

20. Kawasaki disease

21. Multisystem inflammatory syndrome in CHILDREN (MIS-C)

22. Vaccine enhanced disease

[SLR]

You need to remember that everyone here is arguing against these vaccines from the point of mandatory vaccinations and passports.
I don't think anyone has argued that the vaccines haven't reduced reported covid deaths in risk groups for the short term.

The worldwide narrative is that we need vaccinations to get back to normal, where the real world data from places like Israel might be showing reduced deaths, but it is by no means showing any return to normal as far as infections are concerned.
Which takes us back to the argument of why force vaccinate healthy people that are not in a risk group?

I think you should have a read through again.

We have many arguments that they don't work or are causing more harm than good. We have had arguments at the complete old school antivax angles that no vaccines work or against the basic principles of virology. We have the 'never been iolated' rubbish repeated here.

The majority of arguments against them are not based on the mandaroty or not nature.


How do you define an at risk group? Only deaths, deaths plus severe side effects > a certain percentage, total impact on healthcare system vs vaccination?

We are all in a less at risk group after vaccination than before. Its cheap, easy and quick vs the cost of the reduced amount of hospital stay time for any adult group going forward.

[Paul]

The vaccines did NOT do this, so what did?

So... right in the beginning of this mess there was speculation that the MMR vaccine might prove beneficial for SANs???

Correction: TB vaccine.

[MSW2]

I think you should have a read through again.

We have many arguments that they don't work or are causing more harm than good. We have had arguments at the complete old school antivax angles that no vaccines work or against the basic principles of virology. We have the 'never been iolated' rubbish repeated here.

The majority of arguments against them are not based on the mandaroty or not nature.


How do you define an at risk group? Only deaths, deaths plus severe side effects > a certain percentage, total impact on healthcare system vs vaccination?

We are all in a less at risk group after vaccination than before. Its cheap, easy and quick vs the cost of the reduced amount of hospital stay time for any adult group going forward.

The so called vax works just as well as someone wiping his mouth with the back of his hand to get rid of the crap that just come out of his mouth.

If it doesn't stop you getting sick, transmitting the disease, going to hospital, and dying it doesn't work. All of those things happen.

[M43]

We are all in a less at risk group after vaccination than before. Its cheap, easy and quick vs the cost of the reduced amount of hospital stay time for any adult group going forward.

So if I get vaccinated I will be less at risk of getting sick...

Despite the fact that (for the last 13 months) I worked with people who tested positive every now and then. And then they didn't self isolate or hide under the bed as per government decree... They came to work we just made sure they didn't do physically strenuous work. (In some industries if you don't work you don't eat, this is our reality.) Despite the fact that I climbed on the same ladders and hauled and strung the same cables and made notes on and discussed the design drawings with workers and supervisors and then when we had lunch we sat on the pavement and some guys ate out of the same containers (with their hands)... Despite all of this risky behaviour, I didn't get sick enough to notice, neither did most of the other people.

Except two guys from the client who got vaccinated and then died.

So how much safer is the vaxx going to make me?