View Poll Results: Will you be getting a COVID-19 vaccine

Voters
206. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    73 35.44%
  • Undecided

    27 13.11%
  • No, not for the near future

    69 33.50%
  • Never

    37 17.96%
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  1. #1421
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    Default Re: Will you be getting a COVID-19 vaccine?

    I haven't read all 142 messages, so I hope this info is not duplicated.

    To start, I am a medical microbiologist. I hold a PhD from Edinburgh University in the subject. I have worked at the NICD (old SAIMR), a number of overseas institutions, and I spent a good 13 years working with Prof Shabir Madhi and Prof Glenda Grey at one of the Wits Health Consortium units, where I worked on a number of vaccine studies, ranging from pre-clinical development to phase 1-IV clinical studies on most of the vaccines that are currently in use. I took early retirement, and have not worked in the field for a few years now, so I can happily say, that I have no financial or professional conflict of interest.

    When it comes to information about Covid, I am appalled by the number of crackpots out there punting incorrect information meddled with bits of science to push various agendas, and even more astounded by how many well educated people fall for all the facebook, twitter, whatsapp bullshit. I am also ashamed to say that my profession, and that of the medical profession and the department of health have been so pathetic at pushing a simple vaccination program that works.

    The two major issues people have with vaccination, is 1. Does it work? and 2. Is it safe?

    As far as efficacy, you don't have to read all the scientific articles to know a simple fact. In countries like the UK where they have 80% vaccination coverage, there has been a massive surge in delta variant infections, but hardly a single death relative to he number of cases. Most of the deaths have been in unvaccinated people! So confident are they, that they have dropped all their covid restrictions and its business as usual. Wouldn't that be nice! Also in the USA, that states in the bible belt with the strongest antivaccine following are still being hammered by covid whereas the forward thinking states have hardly had a single death.

    As far as safety goes, the death rate due to covid in most European countries has been 1 in 500, whereas the reporting of severe adverse events due to vaccination is less than 1 in 1,000,000. You don't need to be rocket scientist to figure out that you would rather have a 1 in a million risk of dying than a 1 in 500 risk. So get vaccinated.

    A lot of crap has been said about the fact the vaccines are either mRNA vaccines or viral vectors. They say that these are genetic engineering of the body and can cause autoimmune issues etc. What a load of twak. To put things in prospective, at any stage in our life, we carry a number of viruses in our body, most of them asymptomatically. These viruses cannot replicate on their own. They have to inject their DNA or RNA into our cells to hijack them, take over the cell machinery and use it replicate themselves. This happens day in and day out in our bodies, and none of us have turned into Frakenstein's monster because of it. It is a normal fact of life, and our bodies have learned to deal with it. The new generation of covid vaccines does the same, but in an attenuated form, so in relative terms, they are very safe. The common side effects such as a sore arm and bit of fever, are proof that the vaccine is working.

    On the subject of Invermectin, the most recent and well constructed study has shown that IVM has the same efficacy as a placebo... nothing. In fact there are a lot of people who took it religiously, who landed up doing their bodies harm from long term use, and the ICU's are full of people who took it.

  2. #1422
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    Default Re: Will you be getting a COVID-19 vaccine?

    Quote Originally Posted by GAZZAMCK View Post
    To put it bluntly, hard lock down destroyed business, well tax paying business. Informal and unregulated industry still carried on.
    CR says he is protecting "our people" yet nobody is even complying to general recommended safety guidelines, so why did business suffer anyway? Who was protected?

    I may have expressed myself incorrectly, but maybe this is a bit better

    Open the economy, let everyone carry on. Let those who wish to be vaccinated do it, allow those who don't not to.
    Who ever is going to die, is going to die, as per natural law.

    With a 98% recovery rate here what is the point?
    You won't be able to travel without the vaccine.

    The whole don't take the vaccine because it's untested, sure I get that train of thought
    The whole covid denialist I do not get because I have seen my staff suffer with it first hand.

    I will sign a waiver as stated if it means I can get back to normal, I have not yet had the jab, But I will. Nothing against who ever doesn't want it, that's a personal choice.
    Yes you may still catch it regardless, but the vaccination reduces the need for hospitilisation. That was my point

    If it doesn't work, how are countries like Israel fairing so well?
    But why is a waiver even needed? Stop all the crap and let things return to normal. Done.

  3. #1423

    Default Re: Will you be getting a COVID-19 vaccine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Againstthegrains View Post
    I haven't read all 142 messages, so I hope this info is not duplicated.

    To start, I am a medical microbiologist. I hold a PhD from Edinburgh University in the subject. I have worked at the NICD (old SAIMR), a number of overseas institutions, and I spent a good 13 years working with Prof Shabir Madhi and Prof Glenda Grey at one of the Wits Health Consortium units, where I worked on a number of vaccine studies, ranging from pre-clinical development to phase 1-IV clinical studies on most of the vaccines that are currently in use. I took early retirement, and have not worked in the field for a few years now, so I can happily say, that I have no financial or professional conflict of interest.

    When it comes to information about Covid, I am appalled by the number of crackpots out there punting incorrect information meddled with bits of science to push various agendas, and even more astounded by how many well educated people fall for all the facebook, twitter, whatsapp bullshit. I am also ashamed to say that my profession, and that of the medical profession and the department of health have been so pathetic at pushing a simple vaccination program that works.

    The two major issues people have with vaccination, is 1. Does it work? and 2. Is it safe?

    As far as efficacy, you don't have to read all the scientific articles to know a simple fact. In countries like the UK where they have 80% vaccination coverage, there has been a massive surge in delta variant infections, but hardly a single death relative to he number of cases. Most of the deaths have been in unvaccinated people! So confident are they, that they have dropped all their covid restrictions and its business as usual. Wouldn't that be nice! Also in the USA, that states in the bible belt with the strongest antivaccine following are still being hammered by covid whereas the forward thinking states have hardly had a single death.

    As far as safety goes, the death rate due to covid in most European countries has been 1 in 500, whereas the reporting of severe adverse events due to vaccination is less than 1 in 1,000,000. You don't need to be rocket scientist to figure out that you would rather have a 1 in a million risk of dying than a 1 in 500 risk. So get vaccinated.

    A lot of crap has been said about the fact the vaccines are either mRNA vaccines or viral vectors. They say that these are genetic engineering of the body and can cause autoimmune issues etc. What a load of twak. To put things in prospective, at any stage in our life, we carry a number of viruses in our body, most of them asymptomatically. These viruses cannot replicate on their own. They have to inject their DNA or RNA into our cells to hijack them, take over the cell machinery and use it replicate themselves. This happens day in and day out in our bodies, and none of us have turned into Frakenstein's monster because of it. It is a normal fact of life, and our bodies have learned to deal with it. The new generation of covid vaccines does the same, but in an attenuated form, so in relative terms, they are very safe. The common side effects such as a sore arm and bit of fever, are proof that the vaccine is working.

    On the subject of Invermectin, the most recent and well constructed study has shown that IVM has the same efficacy as a placebo... nothing. In fact there are a lot of people who took it religiously, who landed up doing their bodies harm from long term use, and the ICU's are full of people who took it.
    Ok, but why are studies showing that IVM binds to the Covid spike protein and so stops it in turn from binding to the cell, thereby stopping it from replicating. That sounds like it works against Covid.

  4. #1424
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    Default Re: Will you be getting a COVID-19 vaccine?

    Quote Originally Posted by SoldierMan View Post
    Ok, but why are studies showing that IVM binds to the Covid spike protein and so stops it in turn from binding to the cell, thereby stopping it from replicating. That sounds like it works against Covid.
    Which studies show that?

  5. #1425

    Default Re: Will you be getting a COVID-19 vaccine?

    Quote Originally Posted by janfred View Post
    Which studies show that?
    Google or DuckDuckGo should help you with that. I never bookmarked them.

  6. #1426
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    Default Re: Will you be getting a COVID-19 vaccine?

    Quote Originally Posted by SoldierMan View Post
    Ok, but why are studies showing that IVM binds to the Covid spike protein and so stops it in turn from binding to the cell, thereby stopping it from replicating. That sounds like it works against Covid.
    I think the point is clinical efficiency... of which none has been proven to date.

    By the same token, the use of steroids and high flow oxygen have been shown to be clinically effective ways of treating covid and have become the standard of care. In both cases there is nothing sinister, both steroids and oxygen are old school and like invermectin, nobody is making a huge amount of money from them.

  7. #1427
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    Default Re: Will you be getting a COVID-19 vaccine?

    Quote Originally Posted by SoldierMan View Post
    Google or DuckDuckGo should help you with that. I never bookmarked them.
    Are you ignoring everything actually said and throwing in a retort, or really asking a question?

    Nobody else is responsible for figuring out what it is you are referring to. If you are, in good faith, asking a question and you want to know the answer then you link to the source.

    The only reading of binding energy between the two I've seen was in chemical simulations. Doing something on a model, and doing something in a test tube, is not the same as doing something in a human. Binding alone does not make something necessarily an effective treatment in humans. You have to then account for how much is needed to produce an active effect on symptoms, how much is needed to dose into the person, whether it also binds to other important cells, any other effects that dose would have, how long that effect stays around in the body at that dose and that is what the clinical study is for.


    I'm sure the papers about that you read mentioned the need for clinical trials and further study and did not conclude that it is an effective treatment based on binding alone, right?

  8. #1428
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    Default Re: Will you be getting a COVID-19 vaccine?

    Quote Originally Posted by SoldierMan View Post
    Google or DuckDuckGo should help you with that. I never bookmarked them.
    Not quite the way a debate works. You are trying to convince us, not the other way round. I asked you to support a claim you made.

  9. #1429

    Default Re: Will you be getting a COVID-19 vaccine?

    Easy guys, easy. It was something I read while debating on another forum. Use it, don't use it, not really an issue for me, just know that that is what the studies showed and would make sense that it is best used early and midway through. When I have the time I'll see if I can find the studies.

  10. #1430
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    Default Re: Will you be getting a COVID-19 vaccine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Againstthegrains View Post
    On the subject of Invermectin, the most recent and well constructed study has shown that IVM has the same efficacy as a placebo... nothing. In fact there are a lot of people who took it religiously, who landed up doing their bodies harm from long term use
    Source for this statement please?

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