QUICK POLL...THE WORST INFANTRY WEAPONS OF THE SA BORDER WAR?

**driepootx** · 12-02-2021, 18:04

A lot of the military bullets are designed so as to tumble when striking its target. A wounded soldier takes up more of the armies resources than a corpse. Bad wounds thus help to slow down an armies progress.

**M43** · 12-02-2021, 18:25

Originally Posted by Luker

During leadership course in my first year we had to swop out our R1 for the R5 after about
6 months - 1981.
I was issued with a dud. The bipod leg broke off, the hand guard cracked in half on
the left side and the front sight came off.
.

You probably meant R4. The R5 didn't have any of that shit. (Bipods)

On the subject of shitty weapons (outside of the border war, as I was still in school then), basically any R4 that had its "weak" magazine spring "improved" by an Infantry School instructor. This usually involved stretching it past its limits. And then the whole gun stopped working.

**pre 64** · 12-02-2021, 18:25

This is an absolute personal opinion on some of the equipment we used. Different units had different requirements and as such were issued according to needs. Also,weapons were phased in/out or were changed in different time periods. I think it would be important for me to state my opinions on the job we did and the years period of such.
I was called up for 2 years continuous service and completed another 14 months service over 7 years in what was called 'camps'.
1981 [at the tender age of 17 years and 6 moths old] i did 6 weeks basic training at Potchefstroom,then volunteered for officers training school at Oudtshoorn for the remainder of the year. 1982 , sent to 6SAI [South African Infantry Battalion] in Grahamstown to train the January intake for 3 months. Then of to South West Africa and Angola.
So....infantry...boots on the ground [spent a fair amount of time in choppers being moved around for stopper groups]
Anyway, at Oudsthoorn we were one of the first units issued with R4's,up until then the issue had been R1's [FN 7.62x51]
Our R4's were actually Israeli Gallils which came in wooden crates marked tinned fruit.
In the first year we we given rudimentary training on the Vickers [Belt fed],the Bren [magazine fed] and the Uzi but never used any in combat as they had been phased out.
I could give a break down on weapons carried in section,plattoon,company ect. strengh but it would take more writing time than i have.
Suffice to say we used the R4 [or versions thereof]....Brilliant rifle. Mag LMG [light machine gun] in 7.62x51 belt fed....also brilliant. The single shot 40mm grenade launcher , RPG 7 rocket propelled grenade launcher and 60mm platoon mortar.
We never carried 9mms but often carried AK's [just because we could..unofficially of course]
Some units , mostly South West African carried G3's,i shot them quite a bit but never liked them.

**pre 64** · 12-02-2021, 18:35

Speaking of the 5.56x45 cartridge and the R4 rifle......I do not recollect a single malfunction or stoppage in the many hundreds of thousands of shots i have witnessed being fired. There obviously were some but my overall impression of this platform was its absolute reliability no matter what. You think of AK reliability....R4 the same.
R1 FN in 7.62x51 ..... fine battle rifle but,again in my humble opinion,not as reliable as the R4/AK platform.

**Samizat45** · 12-02-2021, 18:59

Originally Posted by pre 64

Speaking of the 5.56x45 cartridge and the R4 rifle......I do not recollect a single malfunction or stoppage in the many hundreds of thousands of shots i have witnessed being fired. There obviously were some but my overall impression of this platform was its absolute reliability no matter what. You think of AK reliability....R4 the same.
R1 FN in 7.62x51 ..... fine battle rifle but,again in my humble opinion,not as reliable as the R4/AK platform.

I was at Infantry School in '83 - No Vickers or Brens (although we heard many interesting stories about them) but agree with you on all your observations. My first "R4" was also one of the Galils (with a wooden fore end IIRC) Loved the R1 and actually carried it briefly for a while during '87 but then found some SS107 rounds in an ammo dump (along with some weird shit like R4 White Phos rifle grenades) and carried those (the SS107 rounds) for the rest of the deployment with an R4.

**A-R** · 12-02-2021, 19:48

A few comments on the G3 rifle:

Apparently the regime somehow confiscated (stole?) a whole shipload of CETME rifles when the ship carrying had to dock due to technical problems. So that is where the majority came from. Not sure about the ammo, but that stuff shoots 1 MOA out of a decent rifle. Just be careful as the mild steel jacketed bullets are not kind to softer barrel steels.

The SAAF and SWATF were issued with these rifles. A lot of the guys who used them liked them a lot.

The weapon that had the most issues in my hands was a SS77 LMG. Those were early production or prototype models and the issues were sorted out later. Could be a most decent LMG if reliable. Sexy looking too...

In my mind the most unreliable piece of army kit was a Bedford truck.

**pre 64** · 12-02-2021, 20:05

Motto....never drive a Bedford further than you were prepared to push it. Surely A-R you had the Samils in your day or did they keep the Bedfords for special occasions.

**Crosshairs** · 12-02-2021, 20:16

A bit more comprehensive list...http://sadf.info/ArmourmentsArmySmallArms.html

**Crosshairs** · 12-02-2021, 20:18

I'm not sure if anyone on the thread had experience with the Sten Gun but as far as I'm led to understand it had a fixed firing pin so that you could take your finger off the trigger and it was wont to carry on firing

**Crosshairs** · 12-02-2021, 20:24

My old man told me about a jeep-mounted French missile system they were all called out to watch carry out a firing demonstration. There was a lot of hype from the PF's about what an advanced piece of equipment it was only for one of the wire guided missiles to plough into the ground fifty feet in front of the jeep on firing...needless to say everyone was digging holes with their noses in a matter of seconds...might give the Bedford a run for it's money in the useless SADF vehicles stakes :)