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  1. #11
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    Default Re: How do tracking dogs track - what did you see.

    Wow ! you have just hit onto my B/collie, she will track or take me to a dead animal, but was just totally uninterested in a wounded animal.

    I have told the guys many times that if she is not interested it means its bleeding, but has not and is not going to fall down soon, like a jaw shot or a gut shot animal.
    YES THEY DO KNOW< WITH OUT DOUBT> FACT

    Now how do you train the hound to follow wounded animals?

  2. #12
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    Default Re: How do tracking dogs track - what did you see.

    Quote Originally Posted by treeman View Post
    I have moved along the animal tracking dog hobby somewhat from the early days of trying to use what I have - a Border Collie.
    As was questioned and discussed here on GS I learnt about these dogs and the forms they come in. I believe it has been 3/4 years since the desire to have a tracking dog arose to the acquiring of this
    yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy by David Frank Allen, on Flickr

    There were many considerations and a GSP was top of my list till almost last year of considerations. I saw this dogs parents in a picture on the internet and tracked the owner to the USA, to find the dogs were on his farm in Transkei area.
    The dogs name is Ratiolla,when Cody was 8 yrs old he watched the movie Ratatouille, which fascinated him to no end but could not say that word" Ratatouille' it became Ratiolla. He said one day if we get a small dog he would name it Ratiolla, not bad since his cat is Gannet (a seabird), his hen is Omelet. Unfortunately the word Ratiolla means the ratio of nipple to areola on a female breast

    The dog is now 6 months old and we train it as we can, but I am noticing some unusual or perhaps need explaining activities.
    I would like to compare notes on how dogs track and possibly the understanding of the how they do so.

    At first (9/10 weeks old) Rat would hit the ground running and start tracking the spoor we had laid. When I say hit the ground running I mean like a motor cross bike on launch. We decided we would always carry her to job site and then place her down in/at work area. Very early in training I noticed she was already running when in the air, and the wheel spin take off is quiet impressive.

    She would nose down fly along the track and find the blood bottle in a straight to the objective manner.
    In the following weeks she was introduced to corners which clearly indicated she was working on nose and not just guessing. A sharp turn to one side would be made in the track and she would more often than not turn on turn as if it was not even a change of direction, indicating she was not just relying on the ground track. Sometimes how ever she would overshoot the turn like that motorX rider and come to a stop some way on from last blood. It is a thrilling thing to see this puppies brain at work, she stops and tests the air in front of her with her nose outstretched like a blind man feeling ahead of himself.Its at this point she often squats and has a pee. She then casually walks back to last spot and does a sniff about and then rockets of again on trail.
    Now 4 months later we have added bigger gaps to the blood drops (introduced from a Energade bottle vigorously shook at intervals). Bigger gaps, turns and U Turns were made in the trail and blood was lifted to branch's and tree trunks at intervals. All this in a track of no more than say 50 m, a turn and a kink and a loop.

    It was at this stage that I started noticing little changes in the how it was done, so much so that I always observe from high ground if possible now. I see she sometimes makes big circles with no apparent purpose, I could understand if it was down wind every time, but its not. Sometimes she does this cut across too a spot and picks up the spoor again and sometimes she loops away to one side and come up on the animal or blood bottle.
    LIKE SHE IS FINDING THE ANIMAL - as in apposed to tracking the animal. Like a scholar answering a question with out knowing how to do the equation.
    This worries me somewhat, I want her to track and find lost animals, not just sniff out a body in the bush.

    So I started the high ground thing, watching from up top.
    It seems to me that she is still tracking, but nose up, not just nose down. I will now risk ridicule and try dog thought to paper as I understand what I see.
    Its like, Ok! here's a drop and here and here and there are some more, sniff sniff I can smell them from nose up - sniff sniff, strong track this, I can smell blood from way over there, not gonna waste time following this lot I will just shoot over there so long, cut along here Yea!! hoo ha I am on it, impala this, just know, smell that shitty plant stuff they eat in their blood, not like kudu with sweet stuff they eat, Impala yea, definitely, male, got some cow dung mud on him too can smell along track. Sniff sniff, what that, that on the breeze, its him? Up that way can smell him on the wind coming to me, his cattle dung male smell, also smell he is still bleeding, smells sharper than the blood thats been out in the air for half hour, bit of pens smell from up there, I will cut across here and skip this drop drop nonsense, I know where he is. Somewhere here, I know it, give me a mo sniff sniff, where **&^* is it I know its here, you cant fool me - there, got it, forget the blood, smell that impala smell, fills the air, how can you miss it.
    Ta taaa ! told you wag, grin, wag, bark.

    I have worded what I have seen from up higher. I took a 17 kg Impala that had been shot and fell on the spot. Dragged it some distance downhill and across and a bit back up hill. Went back to vehicle drove around hill went up to top sent Cody and dog down and got him to where animal dropped. He put dog down and I have written what I saw above.

    The Impala Cody shot in the light trigger post.
    I was not close enough to see the tracking, but as related back to me by Cody.
    The animal bolted on the shot as per a heart shot, and he was almost in tears because he thought it was wounded, "Yo dad it went so fast, gone, one jump gone"
    The dogs were put down and they sniffed around and wandered off, my dog first and off in way wrong direction up a hill, the WHT went in right direction, and as Cody relates, he was just going to go fetch his dog obviously on wrong track, but then Daddy I remembered you said to let her do her work. So he shouted "work Rat Work"
    The WHT then tracked up and across to our dog. Quick picture, the animal was shot in a valley, small valley 20 m high side 100 m across. The animal was shot from 06h00 to 12h00 direction which coincided with lowest track at bottom of valley, the animal when shot turned and headed straight away as along the path the bullet would have taken on exit. The dogs had wondered off and up to higher ground along right side.
    Cody ran after his dog as best he could and then saw his dog enter a thicket and when he got there the WHT was already there at the buck.
    The buck had run from 06h to 12h then turned to a 15h position where it was found considerably higher than the valley floor. So a a straight line away from shooter and then turned right up hill, likely at a constant angle more than a turn.
    The dogs went from 06 to 15h00 from animal shot position at a right angle away from animal shot position, then turned left to the animal and went to it in straight line.
    cccccccccccc by David Frank Allen, on Flickr

    What am I seeing, whats happening, is this the usual progress?, is there matters I should try curb.
    We now use a spry bottle to squirt and mist a trail, I notice the less understood way of tracking is more evident using the sprayer, this indicates there are things going on I do not see, understand.
    Who has good blood spoor animals, and how do they operate?
    Your description is almost visceral.


    Maybe it is the good quality scotch helping.....


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #13
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    Default Re: How do tracking dogs track - what did you see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grobbie View Post
    Your description is almost visceral.


    Maybe it is the good quality scotch helping.....


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    *********************
    Generally do not have any outside fortitude before 10, and Irish is better.
    You will one day hear Cody describe a scene or animal in a hunt, you will "see" his words, the kid describes stuff you know, but never knew you knew.
    The old farm worker Swartland said recently of Cody "yerra Treeman die kind sien dinge"

    Old Swartland, what a real man.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: How do tracking dogs track - what did you see.

    I attend a one day crash course at the Military Dog Unit at Potch.

    Humans and animals is large and high off the ground. Your shoes/feet mixed with the smell of the soil and is also covered in soil. So there is smell at ground level, but much less than you think. A human sweat places like armpits, elbows, behind knees, stomach and groin is high of the ground. The same for animals, feet is covered in soil and body odors is high. The wind blows this smell downwind up to 50 m and the smell attached to the lower branches, leaves and long grass.

    So when the dog tracks it will start low to familiarizes with the smell, once it locks on, it will raise its head and run the spoor smelling the smell that is high and stronger than the smell on the ground itself. In reality the dog can run parallel to the physical spoor, down wind up to 50 m were the smell is the strongest. If there is only low grass like on a rugby field or sand dune, chances are that the top smell will be blown away because there is no vegetation to attached to and the dog will have to settle for the low smell,

    So if the dog tracks downwind and parallel to the spoor, don"t worry, as long as it get its target. If the spoor is lost, the handler must take the dog back to the last known spot where the smell was confirmed.

    During a demo a troop run in the veld randomly. Interestingly in the bushy areas the dog run about 5 m next to the spoor and in open spaces with only long grass the dog runs about 30 m downwind. Hope this info helps to understand why your dog doesn't track always on the physical spoor itself most of the times.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: How do tracking dogs track - what did you see.

    Very much appreciated Zuku, all this stuff also helps me understand some of the google results.
    I am certain once I have the key to this way of thinking I will learn to think dog.
    There is a strong rationale behind what they do, I just need to click.

    We taking a bottle to the coastal thicket in a hour to lay a trail for her to track, trying to do it once a week at least.

  6. #16

    Default Re: How do tracking dogs track - what did you see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zuku View Post
    I attend a one day crash course at the Military Dog Unit at Potch.

    Humans and animals is large and high off the ground. Your shoes/feet mixed with the smell of the soil and is also covered in soil. So there is smell at ground level, but much less than you think. A human sweat places like armpits, elbows, behind knees, stomach and groin is high of the ground. The same for animals, feet is covered in soil and body odors is high. The wind blows this smell downwind up to 50 m and the smell attached to the lower branches, leaves and long grass.

    So when the dog tracks it will start low to familiarizes with the smell, once it locks on, it will raise its head and run the spoor smelling the smell that is high and stronger than the smell on the ground itself. In reality the dog can run parallel to the physical spoor, down wind up to 50 m were the smell is the strongest. If there is only low grass like on a rugby field or sand dune, chances are that the top smell will be blown away because there is no vegetation to attached to and the dog will have to settle for the low smell,

    So if the dog tracks downwind and parallel to the spoor, don"t worry, as long as it get its target. If the spoor is lost, the handler must take the dog back to the last known spot where the smell was confirmed.

    During a demo a troop run in the veld randomly. Interestingly in the bushy areas the dog run about 5 m next to the spoor and in open spaces with only long grass the dog runs about 30 m downwind. Hope this info helps to understand why your dog doesn't track always on the physical spoor itself most of the times.
    Once again. I think it's important to not confuse ground scent and air scent of the target animal, it's also important to be able to recognise how the dog acts in the presence of both. Another thing I've noticed that aids dogs in their ability to work scent, is barometric pressure. Dogs seem to be able to locate scent better when pressure is lower.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: How do tracking dogs track - what did you see.

    And us folk that can smell well well find that dry air is better for smelling. Low air pressure does not seem to assist humans in smelling finer smells I have wondered about this.

    Springer, you keep on saying things that lead to "please explain" - it's important to not confuse ground scent and air scent of the target animal

    In what sense, why? and how would I do this?

  8. #18
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    Default Re: How do tracking dogs track - what did you see.

    Think of what Zuku said and it all makes scents [pun intended]
    Now you gonna go to the thick stuff and lay a blood spoor for the dog....You are physically gonna walk a route pouring out bits of blood.
    Bet you 10 scents [pun intended] that the dog will air scent you to the end and not ground scent the blood.

  9. #19

    Default Re: How do tracking dogs track - what did you see.

    Simply put: Ground scent is any scent on the ground left by the animal which can be recognised and followed by the dog - this can be foot scent or any other traces of the animal, such as blood, faeces, urine etc - ground scent can be followed downwind.
    Air scent is exactly what it suggests, scent that is carried on the air, this is usually scent of the animal itself. The dog will respond to these in different ways - as has already been mentioned (I think by Pre) the dog will lift its head and turn into an air scent once located and depending on the wind conditions there is a wider or narrower scent cone that the dog will manage. A dog running a cheek wind searching for scent will turn (sometimes rapidly) on locating air scent and bore into the wind to locate the source.
    It should be said, that dogs learn differently and act differently while learning, so it's important to have a clear understanding of what the dog is doing and how it reacts to different scenarios. Anticipation is your greatest ally in training a dog in the field, and to be able to anticipate you need to be able to read the dog. In most instances, dogs learn fieldcraft like humans do - by exposure, it's a pretty simple formula more exposure = more confidence. You can't teach them field craft on a rugby field.
    The important things to have in place to develop a dog in the field are: (1) "Stop" (immediately), and (2) "come here" (immediately) - once those two things are in place and you are able to recognise what your dog is doing in the presence of game, the dog will teach you - like kids, dogs develop, and it's important to remember it's a partnership, so keep your side of the deal up. But the two factors mentioned will ensure that your dog doesn't get killed while it's learning.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: How do tracking dogs track - what did you see.

    Quote Originally Posted by pre 64 View Post
    that the dog will air scent you to the end and not ground scent the blood.
    Very important point I missed. When training a dog use some else (runner, farm worker, neighbors son etc) with whom the dog is not familiar with to lay a track. The dog might lock on to the familiar smell it knows and not the quarry smell.

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