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  1. #11

    Default Re: which rifle, curious to hear your thoughts

    Hi shooty. I have a howa 270 at the moment and it's great for hunting but I agree with you, i just can't get my head to accept that they may be a good long distance rifle.

  2. #12
    User 414gates's Avatar
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    Default Re: which rifle, curious to hear your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by glenn.watson View Post
    My first question is calibre, 6.5 creedmore, 300 wimag, 260 or 308.
    All those calibers can easily reach 1000 meters. It's the going further that you need to do homework on.

    I put together a few pointers for long range caliber selection :

    http://www.ysterhout.net/docs/abcrifle/abcrifle3.htm

    Quote Originally Posted by glenn.watson View Post
    Sako TRG 22
    Savage elite precision
    Tikka TX3 tac A1

    I know all of these can easily do 1000m
    The rifle itself is just the platform. All the platform has to do is remain stable, and be reliable. Any platform, from any manufacturer, that meets those criteria, is adequate.

  3. #13

    Default Re: which rifle, curious to hear your thoughts

    thanks 414

  4. #14

    Default Re: which rifle, curious to hear your thoughts

    Don’t let the barrel life be the biggest factor in your decision!
    Make a spreadsheet with the real word data, distanced, BC, altitude you will shoot at most, Muzzle velocity, with 9 or 3 o’clock 10mph wind to compare wind, choose bullets that will be used for the specific calibre for LR.
    You can add barrel life to the comparison but it’s not set in stone as you will get more shots out of a barrel if you look after it and it must still be looked at as a consumable.
    My shooting buddy shoots a Tikka tac A1 in 6.5CM and Sako TRG in 338LM, both of them is great and very accurate and easy to shoot.


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  5. #15
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    Default Re: which rifle, curious to hear your thoughts

    Glen - regarding your post #10, while I was in Ausie land last year we shot 1000 m for a day with only two rifles 30 06 and a 243.
    Perhaps the .243 was a better suited platform, but it outperformed the 30 06 rather clearly on that day with all 3 shooters.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: which rifle, curious to hear your thoughts

    See you already mentioned mark and sam. Love their channel, even though I am not into LR/ELR etc, or for that matter any shooting past 200m :)

    Check their channel there are a few videos on each of the calibers you mentioned.


  7. #17
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    Default Re: which rifle, curious to hear your thoughts

    Each of the options have their merits.

    The 308 is quite capable, especially with the 1:11" twist rate as supplied in Sako and Tikka barrels. Load 178gn Hornady ELD-M (or similar) bullets at the fastest node speed and you should stay supersonic out to 1000m. Barrel life is a factor and here the 308 is the clear winner.

    The 6,5CM and 260Rem are ballistically so evenly matched that I regard them as equally capable. You need a 1:8" twist rate (at least) to get the best out of them. Load 140gn and heavier high-BC bullets and they will both go quite a bit beyond 1000m. Recoil will be less than on a 308, wind drift will be less (this is significant) and barrel life will also be much less.

    The 300WM (and a few other 300 Mags) are quite capable. Load heavy high-BC bullets (190 gn plus) and they can easily go to 1500m. So actually they are in a different class. This also goes for cost per shot and recoil. I have a personal liking for the 300WSM (308 that went to gym) and the classic 300H&H. You need a 1:10" twist rate at the very least, but 1:9" or even 1:8" is better for those extra-long low-drag bullets. This rules out the standard 1:11" twist barrels on the typical Sako and Tikka. Savage usually has the edge here.

    W.R.T. rifle styles I have a strong liking for the TRG and the very similarly shaped Tikka T3 Sporter. The TAC A1 is not bad either.
    Also consider buying a Howa bull barreled action and mating it to a AIM or Warrior chassis.
    For 1000m plinking, I see a strong tendency toward heavy rifles. Extra weight helps to keep the reticle steady on the target and absorbs a lot of recoil. They just don't carry well up into the mountains (or anywhere else).

    I have little experience with Savage rifles, but they do have a reputation for good accuracy. The only negative point is that some of their barrels are finished somewhat roughly. This means they need more lapping or breaking in to get them smooth enough to not accumulate excessive copper fouling. Extra work for you, but not a total disaster.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: which rifle, curious to hear your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Hein Kok View Post
    Don’t let the barrel life be the biggest factor in your decision!
    You can add barrel life to the comparison but it’s not set in stone as you will get more shots out of a barrel if you look after it and it must still be looked at as a consumable.
    This is certainly true if you live in the USA. In South Africa, in reality, if you are going to shoot a lot you should probably pay serious attention to barrel life.

    The last time I had a rifle re-barreled it took six months to get the permission to do it. I visited a gunsmith last week, enquiring on the process and time to replace a barrel on another rifle. I was told that there are rifles that have been sitting in the shop for three years waiting for approval to be re-barreled.
    In my experience it is much easier, quicker, and in the case of a Howa, cheaper to license a new rifle than to re-barrel. Rather consider the rifle to be a consumable. Your budget will obviously determine what to buy but a heavy barreled Howa in 6.5 Creedmoor, .308 win or .300 win mag would be my choice. The caliber would depend on how often I could afford to replace it but, as much as I love the .300 win mag, it would probably be the 6.5 Creedmoor.

    If I could find one I'd also seriously consider a 6mm Creedmoor.
    Fit whatever chassis or stock you want and add a decent trigger. Then buy a second Howa barreled action in the same caliber, when the first one is shot out swap chassis/stock, trigger, scope, rail etc. to the new barreled action.

    If you prefer, and can afford, a Sako buy that. But you could probably buy two Howa's for the price of a Sako. You can very successfully shoot gongs out to 1km with a Howa.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: which rifle, curious to hear your thoughts

    Just for interest sake, cost quoted for re-barreling:

    Locally made (Truvello) barrel and all gunsmith work - R12 000.
    Just the gunsmith work if you supply your own barrel - R6 000.

    I checked with another gunsmith and this price is not out of line.

    And apologies for the hijack.

  10. #20

    Default Re: which rifle, curious to hear your thoughts

    TStone I agree that it is a long process but I know of a few guys that buy a barrel and start the process long before the barrel is shot out.
    With the price of the mentioned rifles it is worth replacing the barrel.
    For a normal hunting rifle it is worth selling the action and buying a new rifle ,but with a LR rifle the option of a custom barrel where you can decide on length,twist and profile it will let you get the most performances out of your chosen caliber.
    I usually load 50 rounds for my rifle and try to shoot two times a month (25 rounds/shoot) lower rounds per range trip forces me to calculate each shot better and thus making it more worth the money and you get better at predicting the POI and being a better shot a LR.
    If you keep on shooting like this the barrel should last at least six years with the 6.5cm and 260.


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