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Thread: Failure to feed

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Failure to feed

    Quote Originally Posted by zguy View Post
    What new brass are you using? Also, powders and make of primers? Single stage or progressive press?
    Do you use them for your work as well or just in your private FA?
    Any tricks or extra steps like using a FCD or crimping pockets etc etc?
    You make a valid point about loading for big 5 game but not wanting to load for 9mm EDC rounds...
    I use new PMP, S&B or Starline brass.
    From 1996 to 2011 I carried either home-rolled or Magtech HP's. I left the cops in 2011 so I dont have a "company gun" anymore.

    The only "trick" to loading carry ammo from new components is this... (But before I get there, the biggest reason factory ammo eventually has to be cycled out of being carried is because of bullet setback. I have seen brand new police issue PMP ball get bullet setback from guns being loaded at the start of a shift and being unloaded at the end of shift in less than a week.)

    This is how you prevent bullet setback. You full length resize you new virgin brass BEFORE you load it and then you only bell / flair the cases JUST enough to load smoothly. Compare a new factory round with one that was handloaded and properly full length sized. The sized case will have a little ledge showing behind the bullet because the cylindrical case wall is tighter than a factory round. most factory rounds don't need much encouragement to have bullets pushed back into the case.

    And the just apply a light crimp to loaded rounds just to straighten out the belling at the mouth.

    Other than that there is no trick. for carry ammo I only load on a Lee classic cast single stage press. I wouldn't trust a progressive. And then I use a loading block to visually check powder fill for every case before seating bullets. Done in batches of 50 to 100 and without any interruptions it is amazing what level of consistency one can load to.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Failure to feed

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptein L View Post
    Yes please give more detail.

    Plus do you have experience on how the XTP 115 gr performs in real live ?
    Yes. I saw what it did to the head of an armed robber at just over two meters from my muzzle. And a week later I saw how it performed on the car (a Mazda 3) when it was recovered and standing at Ford Silverlakes. (this was in Sept 2010)

    The bullet from my gun that hit the suspect in the face hit him square on the nose. It momentarily looked like he sucked in his face (he was the guy sitting in the back). As the car moved my shots were angled from the rear. One bullet struck the left front passenger in the neck / back of head and he was gone immediately. The rest of my shots went at an angle through the right rear door, through the driver seat, through the driver's lower back, out through his abdomen and into the dashboard. The two bullets that went through the driver did not expand (cannot blame them after defeating a car door at an extreme angle) but they also didn't deflect or break up. In my book that is good performance.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Failure to feed

    Quote Originally Posted by M43 View Post
    I use new PMP, S&B or Starline brass.
    From 1996 to 2011 I carried either home-rolled or Magtech HP's. I left the cops in 2011 so I dont have a "company gun" anymore.

    The only "trick" to loading carry ammo from new components is this... (But before I get there, the biggest reason factory ammo eventually has to be cycled out of being carried is because of bullet setback. I have seen brand new police issue PMP ball get bullet setback from guns being loaded at the start of a shift and being unloaded at the end of shift in less than a week.)

    This is how you prevent bullet setback. You full length resize you new virgin brass BEFORE you load it and then you only bell / flair the cases JUST enough to load smoothly. Compare a new factory round with one that was handloaded and properly full length sized. The sized case will have a little ledge showing behind the bullet because the cylindrical case wall is tighter than a factory round. most factory rounds don't need much encouragement to have bullets pushed back into the case.

    And the just apply a light crimp to loaded rounds just to straighten out the belling at the mouth.

    Other than that there is no trick. for carry ammo I only load on a Lee classic cast single stage press. I wouldn't trust a progressive. And then I use a loading block to visually check powder fill for every case before seating bullets. Done in batches of 50 to 100 and without any interruptions it is amazing what level of consistency one can load to.
    Ah, I thought you were still an active SAPS member. I take my hat off to you for serving in the force. I've recently had to deal with a lot of detectives for a home break in and I am impressed by members who are dedicated and passionate.

    Thanks for the insight. I thought you would be using a single stage process for carry ammo. Progressive is perfectly fine for range / competition where the risks are lower, aka, a powder puff or FTF might cost you points vs going down shits creek in a defensive encounter.

    Besides what you mentioned, how long do you carry before you replace your ammo? Also, powder that you prefer ?

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Failure to feed

    Quote Originally Posted by M43 View Post
    Yes. I saw what it did to the head of an armed robber at just over two meters from my muzzle. And a week later I saw how it performed on the car (a Mazda 3) when it was recovered and standing at Ford Silverlakes. (this was in Sept 2010)

    The bullet from my gun that hit the suspect in the face hit him square on the nose. It momentarily looked like he sucked in his face (he was the guy sitting in the back). As the car moved my shots were angled from the rear. One bullet struck the left front passenger in the neck / back of head and he was gone immediately. The rest of my shots went at an angle through the right rear door, through the driver seat, through the driver's lower back, out through his abdomen and into the dashboard. The two bullets that went through the driver did not expand (cannot blame them after defeating a car door at an extreme angle) but they also didn't deflect or break up. In my book that is good performance.
    Well, doesn't get more real life than that! Have you shot through vehicle glass? Your experience with deflection from that?

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Failure to feed

    Quote Originally Posted by zguy View Post
    Well, doesn't get more real life than that! Have you shot through vehicle glass? Your experience with deflection from that?

    Thanks M43 I concur with zguy it does not get any more real than that.

    I have some 115gr XTP's loaded to the same spec and now will not have any problem in carrying them.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Failure to feed

    Quote Originally Posted by zguy View Post
    Have you shot through vehicle glass? Your experience with deflection from that?
    No glass with HP's. Bodywork and "clothed / bare media" only.

    In 1996 when I still carried ball I had to shoot through the rear window and windscreen of a Ford Bantam. I was at the rear of the bakkie and the recipient in front. When the windscreen started falling apart my bullets started hitting where they should. But it took a few to get there. Vehicle glass deflects bullets (any bullet) spectacularly. The more acute the angle the more it deflects.

    Vehicle side windows normally fall to pieces from one or two shots unless there it has smash & grab film.

    Rear and Front windscreens are not impressed by bullets. You have to basically shoot out an opening and then shoot through the opening.

    This same incident in 1996 is the reason I never carried FMJ ball again.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Failure to feed

    Quote Originally Posted by zguy View Post
    how long do you carry before you replace your ammo? Also, powder that you prefer ?
    I cycle out carry ammo every 12 to 18 months. Just like everyone else. And I have a stash of MP200 that will last for a long long time...

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Failure to feed

    Quote Originally Posted by M43 View Post
    No glass with HP's. Bodywork and "clothed / bare media" only.

    In 1996 when I still carried ball I had to shoot through the rear window and windscreen of a Ford Bantam. I was at the rear of the bakkie and the recipient in front. When the windscreen started falling apart my bullets started hitting where they should. But it took a few to get there. Vehicle glass deflects bullets (any bullet) spectacularly. The more acute the angle the more it deflects.

    Vehicle side windows normally fall to pieces from one or two shots unless there it has smash & grab film.

    Rear and Front windscreens are not impressed by bullets. You have to basically shoot out an opening and then shoot through the opening.

    This same incident in 1996 is the reason I never carried FMJ ball again.

    Jip front and back windows of vehicles deflect especially hand gun ammo to a great effect, .308 does a bit better but deflection is still real.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Failure to feed

    Quote Originally Posted by M43 View Post
    No glass with HP's. Bodywork and "clothed / bare media" only.

    In 1996 when I still carried ball I had to shoot through the rear window and windscreen of a Ford Bantam. I was at the rear of the bakkie and the recipient in front. When the windscreen started falling apart my bullets started hitting where they should. But it took a few to get there. Vehicle glass deflects bullets (any bullet) spectacularly. The more acute the angle the more it deflects.

    Vehicle side windows normally fall to pieces from one or two shots unless there it has smash & grab film.

    Rear and Front windscreens are not impressed by bullets. You have to basically shoot out an opening and then shoot through the opening.

    This same incident in 1996 is the reason I never carried FMJ ball again.
    Interesting, thank you.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Failure to feed

    Quote Originally Posted by M43 View Post
    I cycle out carry ammo every 12 to 18 months. Just like everyone else. And I have a stash of MP200 that will last for a long long time...
    Thanks

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