Killing because you can.

**treeman** · 01-04-2021, 14:53

Originally Posted by tcbc

I think that Messor states an unpalatable truth, we all kill. Just by living, we kill organisms. Probably the only thing that varies is the amount of satisfaction we get from killing different things
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He pretty much summed it up like it or not in post 17 already.
Post 39 is just for those that did not get it in post 17.

**zguy** · 01-04-2021, 23:54

Originally Posted by SoldierMan

I agree with some of Messor's initial post but differ slightly in that life is about death AND life.

As self aware beings we can judge where other creatures can't, we can choose to kill or not. We place more worth in the life of say a rhino than a cockroach, it will always be like that.

I don't have time for people that go to the supermarket and buy a rack of ribs and a pack of biltong but then complain about hunters going out and shooting wild game.

We can live in both worlds, we don't have to shoot everything in sight, and hunt what we need, and enjoy nature at the same time, TStone is a good example of that.

I'm on board with you on this.

**zguy** · 02-04-2021, 00:04

Originally Posted by PietSkiet2

My motto if you can't eat it don't shoot it.

This is my stance. Obviously there are exceptions. But killing something just because it's there, is not my idea of fun.

To eat, for hide, to put a sick animal out of its misery, self defense, crop loss or stock loss, population control. Sure, no issue. But to shoot something that is not posing an issue or going to be used, why?

Trophy hunting is one of those areas that are more grey to me. Depending what is being shot, and what is being done with the funds, I can be on board or I can be be not on board.

And then, I also think you should try kill anything as quickly and humanly as possible. Obviously, the situation will call on what is possible and acceptable, but ideally, the animal shouldn't have to run off and die over hours or days, because you are impatient or unskilled.

**Adoons** · 02-04-2021, 06:32

If the term "Parasite" gets analyzed and compared with humans on earth as a whole it would be realised that as humans we are parasitic to or on everything else. We "infest" the earth, multiply in such numbers that the area we live in can not sustain us anymore and eventually will die because our host cannot accommodate us anymore. If we now go to areas on the planet it will be found that in some parts this already happened. People might still be alive, but they are weakening already. A tick climbing from a dead cow to infest another one again stays a parasite.

**Gert Odendaal** · 03-04-2021, 19:40

Great discussion for sure, but while all you members are killing animals left, right and center I will rather keep hunting animals and enjoy their meat as I have done for the past forty years. If there re some of you who would like me to come and do your hunting for you just let me know..for the rest keep feeling guilty since you had to "kill" an animal ...

**Dimitri** · 06-04-2021, 12:23

We exist and we need resources to do so. Millions of living organisms are killed in the process of providing the resources we need. This happens regardless of whether we eat meat or not.

Some things that lead to the death of living creatures are out of our reasonable control. For example, numerous creatures are killed by our vehicles every time we drive yet it is unreasonable to expect that we all stop driving in order to save those creatures. Demand for protein leads to the death of animals whether you are the one doing the killing or whether you avoid that and therefore get others to kill for you. Demand for vegetables leads to the killing of animals whether you are the one clearing the natural bush to plant crops or whether you get someone to do it for you, and whether you are the one that applies the insecticide or whether you get someone to do it for you, and whether you are the one who erected the electric fence to keep the wild animals from damaging the crop while electrocuting countless tortoises and other creatures or whether you get someone to do it for you. Vegans, vegetarians, carnivores, whatevervores we are all responsible.

And while many things are beyond our control, many things are under our direct control. We can choose not to eat meat although it would not be logical to think that we are therefore not responsible for the deaths of animals. We can choose not to hunt although it would not be logical to think that it is OK for a cow to die for our steak but that a kudu dying for someone else's biltong is less OK.

Specifically when we hunt we choose to hunt in a way that we are comfortable with. In a way that is consistent with our views on hunting ethics and even our understanding and views on farming and conservation. Most of us are not sociopaths so we feel bad when we have done something that is not consistent with our personal morals and standards. Thank goodness for that and that we have a conscience otherwise it would be an ugly free-for-all.

There is not a single person reading this who has never made a mistake or made a bad decision. I have. So I can empathise with Treeman's feeling of remorse for having shot the Lynx as he describes in his opening post. This is a guy who has killed lots of animals and guided many people to kill animals. Yet he felt remorse for killing an animal that many regard as vermin to be shot on sight in any situation. Good on you Treeman. If you no longer felt it I'd say perhaps something died in your conscience and in your soul. But it seems to be alive and well. Good on you.

**Fire-stick** · 06-04-2021, 12:33

Originally Posted by Dimitri

We exist and we need resources to do so. Millions of living organisms are killed in the process of providing the resources we need. This happens regardless of whether we eat meat or not.

Some things that lead to the death of living creatures are out of our reasonable control. For example, numerous creatures are killed by our vehicles every time we drive yet it is unreasonable to expect that we all stop driving in order to save those creatures. Demand for protein leads to the death of animals whether you are the one doing the killing or whether you avoid that and therefore get others to kill for you. Demand for vegetables leads to the killing of animals whether you are the one clearing the natural bush to plant crops or whether you get someone to do it for you, and whether you are the one that applies the insecticide or whether you get someone to do it for you, and whether you are the one who erected the electric fence to keep the wild animals from damaging the crop while electrocuting countless tortoises and other creatures or whether you get someone to do it for you. Vegans, vegetarians, carnivores, whatevervores we are all responsible.

And while many things are beyond our control, many things are under our direct control. We can choose not to eat meat although it would not be logical to think that we are therefore not responsible for the deaths of animals. We can choose not to hunt although it would not be logical to think that it is OK for a cow to die for our steak but that a kudu dying for someone else's biltong is less OK.

Specifically when we hunt we choose to hunt in a way that we are comfortable with. In a way that is consistent with our views on hunting ethics and even our understanding and views on farming and conservation. Most of us are not sociopaths so we feel bad when we have done something that is not consistent with our personal morals and standards. Thank goodness for that and that we have a conscience otherwise it would be an ugly free-for-all.

There is not a single person reading this who has never made a mistake or made a bad decision. I have. So I can empathise with Treeman's feeling of remorse for having shot the Lynx as he describes in his opening post. This is a guy who has killed lots of animals and guided many people to kill animals. Yet he felt remorse for killing an animal that many regard as vermin to be shot on sight in any situation. Good on you Treeman. If you no longer felt it I'd say perhaps something died in your conscience and in your soul. But it seems to be alive and well. Good on you.

True words these.
It may help some to put things in a different perspective.

**FFourie** · 06-04-2021, 13:51

Very true Dimitri. What is annoying however is that some people think that they are morally superior because they don't hunt or are vegetarians or vegans and then try to impose their views on others.