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Thread: New 308 rifle project musings
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09-04-2021, 16:54 #11
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Re: New 308 rifle project musings
I don't care about the rifle, you'll get that sorted. I like the short barrel idea for your application, which means lots of powder will be wasted if you load lightish bullets. You don't need speed or BC, load it up with 200 or 220gr flatbase bullets, mid-30gr of powder, seems like a lekker fit for the rifle you're planning.
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09-04-2021, 21:00 #12
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Re: New 308 rifle project musings
For my own learning input, if you do not mind why a bullet above 180 gr what is the benefits?
I see more recoil.
More cost per bullet.
A greater rainbow affect to trajectory the day you do need to stretch the shot a bit.
I am assuming you have solid reasons, open question to anyone.
I am sure the answers will be beneficial in regard to the OP and his build, bullet choice etc
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09-04-2021, 21:56 #13
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Re: New 308 rifle project musings
S335, if it ever becomes available again, will burn very close to 100% in a 16" barrel behind a 150gn bullet. That was one of my criteria that I looked at. Normal loads would be from 150 gn to 180gn, simply since these are widely available.
Yes, a thinner barrel may just work. It may also require more load development to get the best precision. I still want precision to be able to stretch the shooting distance when needed. A fat barrel makes this slightly easier. I like fatter barrels in general. The weight is not an issue, as a lot of weight will be removed by shortening it. Not a requirement that is cast in stone. The right opportunity may just happen with a normal barrel profile. Just not one of those pencil barrels please...
What got me thinking along these lines was Treeman's shorty 303. Basically the same concept. Before I do the 308, I might just as well do a short 303 to test the concept. It already has a synthetic stock and low-mounted 2-8x scope on. Will do some calcs and see how a 16" (and other lengths) 303 will perform.
My options in 308's include the following at the moment:
1. Howa 1500 barrelled action. Probably the cheapest and lots of accessories available.
2. CZ557 varmint synthetic.
3. Tikka T3x CTR or similar.
4. Ruger American. Accessories like mags etc may be a challenge. They make a few models with 16" barrels, but not in 308 AFAIK.
5. Ruger Hawkeye Scout. Hmmm... I like this one a lot. Not too many of them around. Controlled feed as well, not that it matters much for this application. Would hesitate to cut this one.
6. Remington 783. (Are they even still made now that Marlin belongs to Ruger?) Also simple yet effective. (I have never grown a liking in the Rem 700.)
7. I could modify my RSA 308, add a mag, and use it in a new role. Might have to lighten the action a bit. The action machining may turn out costly. Not sure I want to go there, original RSA actions are getting scarce. (Then replace it with an umolested Howa 24" Varminter in it's current role.)
8. I have a CZ 550 Varmint in 243. When the barrel eventually can't be set back any more, this may be a prime candidate for the shorty 308. Re-barreling may cost just as much as a new Howa barreled action. It has a detachable box mag already, but at the price CZ want for a 10-rounder, I may just reconsider.
Choices, choices. Fortunately, I'm not in a hurry.
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09-04-2021, 22:25 #14
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09-04-2021, 22:37 #15
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Re: New 308 rifle project musings
A-R I don’t think it’s my place to lecture you, but since you are not focusing bear with me.Powder burn is not what propels a bullet.Gas expansion is what does.Forget your 100% burn rate with S335 and use S321 in your QL, no muzzle flash since you will have a suppressor, and much cheaper, and you probably reload 223 as well.
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09-04-2021, 22:40 #16
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Re: New 308 rifle project musings
My Howa 308 with Hogue stock, 20 inch heavy barrel, Nikon 4-16 scope and reflex suppressor (reflex saves a few inches on overall length so it fits more easily in safe/case/bag/behind bakkie seat etc) ticked most of those boxes for several years. Recently put a GRS Berserk stock on which changed it quite a lot and shifted it away from your requirements but improved it in other ways. As long as you stick with the Hogue stock I think you'd be right on the button. Only shortcoming is that I found it started feeling heavy quite soon when carrying it, but then again I'm not very well muscled or strong and have shoulder issues.
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09-04-2021, 22:41 #17
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09-04-2021, 23:20 #18
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Re: New 308 rifle project musings
Yes, S321 works well. I have also tried S341 and it has it's uses. They are also a real pleasure to load, since my powder measure throws them extremely consistently. However, I have found that S335 is way less temperature-sensitive than the ball powders. I have hunted and shot in ambient temperatures ranging from 0 to 40 deg C. In the 40 deg C weather, my S341 loads let me down. But that's one of the reasons for sticking with the 308. We have a wide choice of suitable powders, and it should shoot pretty well with all of them. The particular rifle should be willing to work well with a wide variety of loads, even if I may choose to stick with just 1 proven recipe.
Yes Messor, I am not focussing on any one point in particular right now. That is intentional. I am trying hard to be open-minded and consider all the options and variables, with the view of systematically narrowing them down over time to where I can make a properly thought through decision.
On the matter of reflex-silencers. I have examined and used a quite a few of them. I have built a few myself, still have 2 of them on my rifles and another on a carbine. They have their uses, strong points and weak points. Heat retention in the part of the barrel sitting inside is one of the negatives. Overall I don't think the extra complexity and weight is worth it. On a 308 I want at least 200mm of suppressor in front of the muzzle. Whatever sits behind the muzzle does not make much difference to the noise in my experience. This is my view at present, subject to change without notice, if or when new facts come to my attention.
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09-04-2021, 23:51 #19
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Re: New 308 rifle project musings
What got me thinking along these lines was Treeman's shorty 303. Basically the same concept. Before I do the 308, I might just as well do a short 303 to test the concept. It already has a synthetic stock and low-mounted 2-8x scope on. Will do some calcs and see how a 16" (and other lengths) 303 will perform.***********************YOU JUST HAVE NO IDEA HOW ABSOLUTELY AWESOME THIS CREATION IS.If I lived around the Kruger Park (I go every 3 years) - I really do believe that my .303 shorty would kinda be everything I could need to recreate the old .303 Boer reputation.I now have two shorties, a .458 and the .303 - I am not sure if I can tell the differance on Kudu downwards on effectiveness. The .303 seems to have longer legs.
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10-04-2021, 00:14 #20
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Re: New 308 rifle project musings
If you are trying to achieve something - a goal or effectiveness of the tool, I doubt that you will continue with the .308 project after you have experimented with the .303.
After perfecting the load with the 174 gr bullet you will likely realize that you can not really get much better in regard to 30 cal and a budget. You could perhaps gain 80 fps or .25 of a inch or what ever over the required 150 m use,. You could also realize that a R800 rand box of interlocks needs to be replaced with a R1500 box of Bonded or Mono bullets to hold together.
I honestly believe the .303 is all you need for closer range, it covers 90 % of everything at a price which is less than the cost of a new Lynx 3-9 scope. I really got the thought, message when using it for what it was built, " ah! this works" I do not need a .308, 30 06 - .458, or 12 G slug, this just works"
There was also a great sense of satisfaction in taking a piece a shit, give me R350 for it rifle and making it into a "geese dave that thing works ey" + it has your 10 round mag.
Only I wish is that i could have a personalized profile barrel, semi bull would be great, but then it would not be a scrap build princess.
I just realized. while typing, I have a Musgrave K98 action ??? mmmn what about a K98 action and a semi bull barrel as a modern .303 calber rifle. Generous free bore and K98 strength with correct twist mmmmmnnnn, my .270 is really tired.
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