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  1. #21

    Default Re: Teach me about shotguns please

    Quote Originally Posted by jager View Post
    Marius, I'm in the same boat. I've spent about 2 months reading, watching videos, asking pros and looking at OU shotguns. Eventually decided on a Miroku MK70 and bought it a couple of days ago.


    By all accounts the Miroku is on par with the Brownings and Berettas, and in Europe they cost roughly the same as well. In SA, for some reason the Mirokus are considerably cheaper than the Brownings and Berettas. So for me it was an easy choice. They are made in the same factory as the entry level brownings. (Miroku builds the machine made brownings)


    From what I've seen, Berettas start at about 40k, Brownings at about 35k and you can get Mirokus from about 25k.

    Miroku is practically identical to Browning in away they are twins. And MK70 is a superb model to buy. I just bought the B725 as replacing my older Browning B725.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Teach me about shotguns please

    Quote Originally Posted by pre 64 View Post
    Shooty....What you are saying is true to a point or more accurately , true to a particular persons shooting style.

    My humble opinions.
    .You do not need full choke for trap or down the line. Modified or improved modified does the job.
    .Yes,open or cylinder choke is nice for skeet but using modified choke and no.9 shot is not a major disadvantage unless you are really chasing a high score.
    .Wingshooting ...fixed chokes in modified and full are perfect in 99% of shoots.

    A common choke configeration in fixed choke O/U guns is modified and full , so no prob there.

    Fit of a shotgun is,as you say,crucial. BUT most guns can be made to fit in a very useable way by simply shortening the stock or extending the stock , both easily done. This shortening or lenghening seldom needs to exceed 20mm.

    All of the above is applicable to the keen clay target shooter or hunter. Start looking for provincial or national colours and you will need to up the equipment stakes.
    If your slow on target on trap then Full choke is needed. If you shoot +35m. if your able to be quicker and get down to 20m distance to break. Which most novice to medium trap shooters cant get. You can go wider open on chokes. On skeet targets are very near to you. So full open and Skeet chokes recommended with nr 9.

    With trap you need to see front sight and little rib as you want to shoot higher then level so you can see clay above the barrel and shoot it, here you need your head higher on stock as you want to shoot 25/75 at 16 yards. In skeet you need to see no rib at all. As you want to shoot more 50/50 spread and in front as you will be aiming in line with clay in air and not below. Unless a person is not aiming for +20/25 clay scores.

    Also if a person stays around 10 to 15 out of 25 you easily give up clay shooting as you cant figure it out.

    A good view on choke selection. They also have good view on gun fit.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Teach me about shotguns please

    Quote Originally Posted by Springer View Post
    I would suggest not concentrating too hard on the right gun. Find a workable one within your budget and get into the sport. Your passion, connections and personal preferences will develop once you get more immersed in the various shoots you go on. Once you develop those preferences you will be drawn to what you prefer, whether it's a SS or OU. But just find a good 12g gun that will get you started - there are plenty about. Then later upgrade to that dream gun.
    I agree 100% with Springer on this. Get started somewhere does not have to be the best or most specialised in any discipline. more important get out there and shoot, clays, birds it does not matter as long as you get into it.

    I started with a single barrel Astra, joined my local club, got involved with pigeons and clays. my single barrel worked well enough for me to start enjoying the sport. Not one bloke with the bunch I shoot with will tell you your gun is only suitable for skeet, trap or whatever. They only care that you enjoy the sport. We shoot every weekend and enjoy it with so called cheapies to the more expensive stuff. Bottom line is did you enjoy it? if the blokes that you shoot with aren’t a bunch of snobs they might even let you use their shotties for a session so that you can make your own decision about the feel of a shotgun and if you enjoy shooting it.

    I now shoot pigeons every weekend especially during the sunflower season, and sometimes when I am in the mood and time allows during the week as well. I have since moved on to a OU Franchi Feeling and I compete very well in all disciplines even though I am a lefty with a supposedly right hand shotgun. From clays to pigeons to gamebird.

    Bottom line for me is if you want to save for the best with all the bells and whistles and what is supposed to be a specialised shotgun you might end up never getting anywhere and not owning a shotgun and not having the fun that goes along with it.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Teach me about shotguns please

    Quote Originally Posted by AJR View Post
    Marius, I made the above comments somewhat tongue in cheek. However, only somewhat. Allow me to explain my differing point of view.

    There are two types of shotguns: one used well, and one rusting in a vault.

    It is ok to romanticize "when we were young" shotgun acquisitions, but that world no longer exists. 1) to buy and license two different shotguns will probably take two years, and 2) there are no more places left to go shoot your box of shells.

    A shotgun today is well used when you a) join a club, b) murder those clays, and c) occasionally wingshoot. Clubs will be clubs, but I can assure you pitching with a baikal and a box of shells won't last for long. Yet, it allready took a year to get to the shoot with the baikal.

    Then there's the accessories, and the weekends / competitions away, and the fundraisers for the club... Shotgunning today is a "capital intensive sport", and the only place left for the venerable baikal and a box of shells from the lgs, is disappearing.

    And then theres breakage. The beretta and browning can be fixed, and maintains fairly good dealer support.

    I know many an owner of a "deceased estate" shotgun. They're all safe queens, and mostly broken, whilst the beretta and brownings are at the range.
    If Marius had the budget for a Beretta/Browning/Miroku/Winchester I would be the 1st to agree that it would be the best choiceq, but at this stage he does not, but chances are that down the road he will.

    If we now convince him that wingshooting and clay target shooting is too rich for his blood, he may just decide to take up fly fishing and one day when the funds are available he may just opt for a custom made split cane rod and a trip into the New Zealand mountains hunting giant browns.

    I can also introduce you to a multitude of clay shooters that would not have been, if they had to wait until they could afford the best shotgun.

    I stand by my advice to buy the best that your budget will allow and get shooting. Also don't forget about used guns.

    Sent from my SM-A307FN using Tapatalk

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Teach me about shotguns please

    OP (Marius) you asked for an education in Shotgunning. I will reduce it to simple terms.
    a) You'll need time in the saddle towards shotgunning: join a club and save via the club.
    b) shotguns are not rifles. There is no rds or scope to help. Or bench / rest. You need to pick up the target, and fire once - maybe twice - on the target, from a standing position. Shotgunning is for good reason an Olympic discipline.
    c) a 5k / 2nd hand baikal allows you to initiate some ammo, but a) THIS DOES NOT MEAN THE GUN FITS YOU, and b) it is improbable the gun is a good mate to you.
    d) it takes a year to license a firearm.
    e) whatever you spend on the gun, will be your yearly spend on ammo.
    f) a good shotgunner needs TIME IN THE SADDLE to improve.
    g) a 5k baikal requiring a 3k fix, will never be repaired. A 25k beretta requiring a 5k fix, will.
    h) nough said.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Teach me about shotguns please

    Allow me to add:
    a) OP is not someone who seems to be convinced of shotgunning. He's allreay asking questions towards the privilege.
    b) he's asking towards a real picture, not an entry level "shoot out of a box" story,
    c) he's asking what a professional forum thinks long term, not whether buying an entry level shotgun / baikal is good sense,
    d he's asking what he'll be looking at in 5 years from now. Not 6 (odd) months,
    and that's the right questions for this forum!

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Teach me about shotguns please

    AJR, maybe I'm not as good at reading between the lines, so I'll just copy the original post below, just to keep my answer to point.

    Quote Originally Posted by MariusT View Post
    I am looking at buying my first shotgun. I am also financially challenged as many are. I had a look at some semi's and some over/unders and so on, from very cheap to 'wow look at that, is the comma in the right place?' type of guns. I don't know much about shotguns but have used them extensively, so I would like to get advice to get the right gun for me. I plan on using it for the occasional wingshoot mostly, and if some clays happen to be thrown, for that too. I have permission for pigeon and dove shooting and this would be the main use, however other bird species would also be on the menu since I will have the right equipment.

    So what should I look at? I looked at some Brownings, Franchis and Berettas but they are a bit pricey. I also saw some turkish guns wich look good but I don't know them. Then there is a CZ Mallard for a very reasonable price.

    What should I consider?

    Sent from my ELE-L09 using Tapatalk
    Marius, your financial situation will change, but the longer you save for your first shotgun, the longer it will be before you can start really making use of the wingshooting opportunities that you already have. A responsible wingshooter owes it to their quarry to become competent enough to ensure a high probability of a clean quick kill, which is why I started clay shooting, not for the competition aspect off it.
    A SbS may be a little light for high volume dove and pigeon shooting, but most ethical wingshooters quickly pass through the fase where they constantly need to shoot out cases of ammo and kill hundreds of birds in a day, and in any case at the current price of ammo, that type of shooting is going to cost you an arm and a leg in any case.

    Look at second hand quality guns for sure, there are still many of the S series Beretta's that Musgrave parted into SA during the arms embargo, available and most has not fired more than 10 000 shots, which means you still have 80% plus of life left in the gun.

    Multi-choke is definitely a plus, but not the end of the world, if you end up getting a old Trap gun or SbS choke Modified and Full, wait a little longer before you shoot a walked up bird or shoot that incoming Rocky slightly earlier.

    My advice on Turkish guns are easy, do not pass them over, but make sure you buy one that is well supported in SA, and that disqualifies the CZ Mallard. Incidentally the current SA woman's Skeet champion shoots a Turkish gun.

    Finally to AJR, if I had followed you advice when I was thinking of getting into wingshooting, I would not have and I would have missed out on some of the best friends that I met wingshooting, four and two legged, many hundreds of great shooting adventures, some international travel, a medal or two, provincial colors and a dream of trying for National colors, when funds have been replenished again...

    Marius my advice still remains the same, buy the best gun that your budget allows, get that application in and start shooting, you'll get financially secure in time and then you can upgrade.

    Sent from my SM-A307FN using Tapatalk

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Teach me about shotguns please

    Thanks for all the replies. I'm still looking and thinking at what to get. I'll definitely consider all the aspects raised here when making a decision.

    Sent from my ELE-L09 using Tapatalk

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Teach me about shotguns please

    if you just asked two weeks earlier!


    27/03/2021
    12ga Winchester "Pigeon Grade" O/U Shotgun - Cased In leatherette take-down case. Ribbed multi-choked barrels of 28". Wrap-around chequering to grip and fore-end, solid red recoil pad to butt of well-figured walnut. Single selective trigger, ejector action. Good bore. Very good condition.

    R 8870.00

    https://i.imgur.com/sa9xtnN.jpg

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