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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Species lawfully hunted with .233

    I hunted Kudu with a .223 for years, fresh out the army full of best caliber in the world etc, 22 years old. High neck and head shots almost always requiring a follow up shot. That follow up shot ? Found that same need when shooting Springbuck or Impala, even small Warthog, always so just not enough gun.
    That is actually the bottom line, just not enough gun.

    I bought my son a .223 as his intro gun and he shot two pigs with it, using 65 gr Sierra Game Kings both were found with relative ease as they had not run all that far. Good thing that, cause the next 4/5 pigs I shot with it caused me much searching and second shot requirements, just not enough gun.

    Yes bla bla bla, I have also heard its all about shot placement, its still just not enough gun.

    If you wish to hunt, get a hunting caliber and not a military cartridge designed to kill mankind.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Species lawfully hunted with .233

    Quote Originally Posted by treeman View Post
    not a military cartridge designed to kill mankind.
    I think it was actually designed to maim and injure more than kill, because injured soldiers use up more resources than dead ones on the battle field.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Species lawfully hunted with .233

    Quote Originally Posted by Againstthegrains View Post
    I think it was actually designed to maim and injure more than kill, because injured soldiers use up more resources than dead ones on the battle field.
    ***********************
    I thought of posting "designed to cause causalities and moral drain", but it did not seem the right thing to mention t the time.
    I do fully agree with your statement, killing was never part of the called for criteria, stopping, and disabling were all that was required.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Species lawfully hunted with .233

    Thanks for all the feedback.

    The farm I hunt on regularly with my .303 has Kudu, Warthog, Bushpig, Springbuck, Duiker, Jackal, Baboons and Vervets. I mainly hunt Kudu but since I was given a Brno ZKK 601 .223 recently I wondered about hunting Springbuck with it.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Species lawfully hunted with .233

    The BRNO has a slow twist so you'll be limited to bullets in the 55gr range, shot fast. I've seen what they do on brain-shot springbok (impressive) and also what they do hen the brain is missed (gruesome). They're not adequate for body shots even on springbok, and anyway cause a lot of meat damage.

    The slower-twist 223s are great for shooting pests but I'd be wary of anything else.

    ETA: Welcome to the BRNO club though! Please post us some pics on the "Show us your BRNO/CZ thread".

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Species lawfully hunted with .233

    I don’t know which world you guys live in but I have seen more animals shot with a 222 than all the other calibers combined. I have seen lung shots on all antelope up to kudu, they all fall down, all soft point 55gr bullets.

    There is a difference between the capability of the rifle and the ability of the shooter, if you’ve skinned enough game you’ll know there is simply not enough resistance to stop the bullet from entering the lungs (when shot correctly).

    Take the following sentence exactly the way I say it, is the 223 a suitable hunting cartridge, yes, definitely yes, is it something I will advise the ordinary person to use, no, definitely no.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Species lawfully hunted with .233

    Quote Originally Posted by Pirate View Post
    They're not adequate for body shots even on springbok, and anyway cause a lot of meat damage.
    Pirate, you are wrong, simple as that, respectfully.
    It's a great springbok rifle, if you want to know why go look at a ballistic table, look at what a standard 55gr bullet is doing at 200m.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Species lawfully hunted with .233

    Any calibre has it's limitations and capabilities. The 223 is no different. However, the specific bullet used in this calibre has a huge impact on it's capabilities. And that specific bullet needs an appropriate twist rate to stabilize.

    The common views on the 223's capabilities are all based on it's performance with the relatively fragile 50 - 55 gn varmint bullets that are popular in it. I have shot a few thousand if these at appropriate targets, so I am somewhat familiar with it's capabilities.

    Then there are the 223 rifles with faster barrel twist rates. This changes the caliber's capabilities completely. For example, a 80 gn bullet at 2760 fps from a 22" barrel performs totally differently on game than any of the 55gn jacketed bullets (at +/-3200fps). Extra weight, higher SD, lower impact velocity all contribute towards much deeper penetration. The same rifle would probably shoot a 55gn mono-Cu expanding bullet pretty well with excellent performance on small and maybe even medium game.

    My point is, the 223, like any other cartridge, can only do what the bullet, load and shooter allows it to do. Choose the correct rifle, and bullet for the job. Then train and practice the driver.

    The legal implication of it's use on game is another matter and this is somewhat complex. Look at all the relevant laws and regs for the location you intend to hunt, including the landowner's own rules. Also look at all the exemption clauses. The 223 is definitely not an all-rounder for all game. It is specialized for vermin and a few other tasks. Culling game in the hands of an expert is one of these. Training younger hunters is also one of the tasks I use it for.

    Use it within it's limitations and you will enjoy it a lot.

  9. #19
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Messor View Post
    Pirate, you are wrong, simple as that, respectfully.
    It's a great springbok rifle, if you want to know why go look at a ballistic table, look at what a standard 55gr bullet is doing at 200m.
    Look, I should perhaps also have said "in the general case", because essentially we mean the same thing.

    It all come back to shot placement and the small, light bullet just makes it all the more critical. So while, in the right hands, it can of course be very effective, I still don't believe it's the best general solution for a springbok rifle (and I'm sure, neither do you). The margins against things going badly are just really small.

    In my opinion the margins become more acceptable with somewhat heavier mono bullets (I'm looking hard at the 62gr TSX for this purpose) but I'm not sure if the 1:12 twist will stabilise that bullet.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Species lawfully hunted with .233

    Quote Originally Posted by Pirate View Post
    Look, I should perhaps also have said "in the general case", because essentially we mean the same thing.

    It all come back to shot placement and the small, light bullet just makes it all the more critical. So while, in the right hands, it can of course be very effective, I still don't believe it's the best general solution for a springbok rifle (and I'm sure, neither do you). The margins against things going badly are just really small.

    In my opinion the margins become more acceptable with somewhat heavier mono bullets (I'm looking hard at the 62gr TSX for this purpose) but I'm not sure if the 1:12 twist will stabilise that bullet.
    Load the 53gr TSX, it goes straight through an adult impala ram's neck vertebrae and penetrates easily and deeply into the chest cavity with a heart/ lung shot, exiting again most of the time depending on angle, it will have no problems taking down a springbuck.

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