.223 Semi Auto

**HenryHE** · 21-07-2021, 12:55

Thanks for all the advice, but I did not mention that I do not shoot competition and the majority of my shooting varies from 25m to maybe the extreme 150m that is in the bushveld, so maneuverability is quite important.

**Stevin** · 21-07-2021, 14:35

Originally Posted by Wesley

When the whole PCC thing started in local IPSC matches, we as rifle shooters thought we would each get one and compete at the matches with distances at 100m or less, and be competitive. Turns out we were wrong, the .223’s easily outshoot the PCC’s at anything beyond 25 or so meters. The 223’s cycle much faster and the recoil impulse is faster and easier to overcome when compared to a PCC on further targets.

At “Aim Once, Shoot Twice” sort of distances, the PCC’s have the upper hand.

Ultimately we need one of each, but my AR15 is a greater necessity than what a PCC would be for whatever your purpose may be.

I would even say a PCC doesn't have an advantage at the "aim once, shoot twice" distances you mention, for the same reason you believe a 5.56 AR is better. i.e. longer, less harsh recoil impulse.. at the very least I would say they are fairly dead even, re the PCC and 5.56.

**Stevin** · 21-07-2021, 14:37

Originally Posted by HenryHE

Thanks for all the advice, but I did not mention that I do not shoot competition and the majority of my shooting varies from 25m to maybe the extreme 150m that is in the bushveld, so maneuverability is quite important.

Why? Are you clearing houses in the bush? CQC against Giraffe?
I longer barrel usually is not a hinderance in the bush.

**Wesley** · 21-07-2021, 15:50

Originally Posted by HenryHE

Thanks for all the advice, but I did not mention that I do not shoot competition and the majority of my shooting varies from 25m to maybe the extreme 150m that is in the bushveld, so maneuverability is quite important.

Noted. As with most sports or games, there is a component that will in some way or form translate into the real world. I’m sharing my experience of the lessons learned in IPSC, to inform you of the differences.

If you think you are going to engage targets with precision or authority in the bushveld or any other place at a distance of 150m with a PCC, I am afraid you are mistaken.

For interest sake, what do you anticipate shooting at in the bushveld at those distances? I’ve seen a Warthog being harvested with a 9mm PCC at around 40m. It isn’t ideal.

**Paul** · 21-07-2021, 15:57

Originally Posted by Bjorn881

Search the group as well as the Facebook Gunsite group, you will see numerous people have had issues with the DM4, the S&W M&P15 sport II is the go to recommendation for an AR15, sadly MRST are no longer the importers/agents of S&W and the new agents seem very lack luster in providing backup and aftermarket support which is very saddening. So I'm not sure who to actually recommend anymore!

Also consider making a post in the Introductions thread, since you're new here!

Huh?

The main importer for S&W hasn't changed in 40 years or more. It is and always was Nicholas Yale.

**Paul** · 21-07-2021, 16:01

Originally Posted by tomtom

Cant speak to the brand but a 12 inch barrel is very short. An SBR comes with a lot of draw backs. If you're planning on putting some proper rounds through it, budget for extractors, buffer springs and the lugs on the bolt carrier will sheer sooner rather than later.

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Yeah the OOB detonation on my wife's 10.5" NEA after only 25 000 rounds was a real disappointment. BTW, this was caused by the tip of the firing pin peening slightly so that it protruded from the bolt face and KABOOM!

A new firing pin and bolt and it's running just fine.

My 7.5" only has about 10 000 rounds through it so hasn't broken anything yet.

**tomtom** · 21-07-2021, 16:26

Originally Posted by Paul

Yeah the OOB detonation on my wife's 10.5" NEA after only 25 000 rounds was a real disappointment. BTW, this was caused by the tip of the firing pin peening slightly so that it protruded from the bolt face and KABOOM!

A new firing pin and bolt and it's running just fine.

My 7.5" only has about 10 000 rounds through it so hasn't broken anything yet.

25 000 rounds on original buffer spring and bolt? Can't imagine that to be an entry level AR? We had guys sheer lugs on suppressed DD MK18's at 3-4 grand.

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**oafpatroll** · 21-07-2021, 17:08

Originally Posted by tomtom

25 000 rounds on original buffer spring and bolt? Can't imagine that to be an entry level AR? We had guys sheer lugs on suppressed DD MK18's at 3-4 grand.

For any but the Rolls Royce rich that must be soul crushing.

**SLR** · 21-07-2021, 17:28

The majority of the recommendations are working on the assumption that the rifle will be licensed in South Africa which limits and that its use falls into the category of DSS hence the sporting slant. Its by far the most common.

Describe your use case for the rifle, where and shooting at what, to get better recommendations.

**tomtom** · 21-07-2021, 17:53

Originally Posted by Paul

Yeah the OOB detonation on my wife's 10.5" NEA after only 25 000 rounds was a real disappointment. BTW, this was caused by the tip of the firing pin peening slightly so that it protruded from the bolt face and KABOOM!

A new firing pin and bolt and it's running just fine.

My 7.5" only has about 10 000 rounds through it so hasn't broken anything yet.

Did some research, and it is not uncommon for bolts to go well into the 20 thousands, even on SBR's. My personal experience does not make me an expert on all things firearms. Always good to learn!

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