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  1. #1
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    Default Replacing the M14 with M16 during Vietnam. Your thoughts?

    Hey gents

    Hoping to ignite a little bit of a discussion on a topic that has been an interest for many years.

    During the Vietnam War the US Military (and McNamara's "Whiz Kids") decided to replace the M14 rifle (7.62mm NATO) with the M16 (5.56mm). Basically all Marine units in the Nam carried the M14 up to 1967. Some Army units (like the 1st and 25th Infantry) arrived with the M14, but soon phased them out for the M16. Airborne units arrived with the M16 as early as 65 (101st, 173rd and the 1st Cav). It did not take long for the M16 to develop a bad reputation, although in my opinion the M16A1 issued from late 67 was a remarkable improvement.

    What are your guys thoughts of switching from the battle rifle to the assault rife during this profound era?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Replacing the M14 with M16 during Vietnam. Your thoughts?

    I'm looking forward to the more knowledgeable to provide their input on the relative merits of the firearms.

    In the meantime my peanut gallery take on it is that McNamara and his golden circle were really smart prize cunts. Intellectual heavyweights and military bantams. I imagine them as the shiny suit, narrow shoe business strategy consultants of their time.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Replacing the M14 with M16 during Vietnam. Your thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by oafpatroll View Post
    I'm looking forward to the more knowledgeable to provide their input on the relative merits of the firearms.

    In the meantime my peanut gallery take on it is that McNamara and his golden circle were really smart prize cunts. Intellectual heavyweights and military bantams. I imagine them as the shiny suit, narrow shoe business strategy consultants of their time.
    Yup, McNamara and his merry men were all pogues (aka jam stealers) during WW2. They had absolutely no idea what the men on the ground needed, based on their cushy military experience. Smart prize cunts that got a lot of boys killed.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Replacing the M14 with M16 during Vietnam. Your thoughts?

    Ok, help out a newbie here. During the middle of a war, not once it was finished, but in the middle of a war, they decided to change the rifle that the troops were using?

    Isn't that a just plain stupid decision for so many different reasons??

    Reliability of a new weapon in the field and potential faults that might arise.
    Knowing what the new weapon is capable of in a fight vs knowing exactly what your old weapon was capable of.
    Ammo and parts availability.
    Did I say reliability and the soldiers trusting the new weapon.

    I'm sure there is much more.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Replacing the M14 with M16 during Vietnam. Your thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by SoldierMan View Post
    Ok, help out a newbie here. During the middle of a war, not once it was finished, but in the middle of a war, they decided to change the rifle that the troops were using?

    Isn't that a just plain stupid decision for so many different reasons??

    Reliability of a new weapon in the field and potential faults that might arise.
    Knowing what the new weapon is capable of in a fight vs knowing exactly what your old weapon was capable of.
    Ammo and parts availability.
    Did I say reliability and the soldiers trusting the new weapon.

    I'm sure there is much more.
    The SADF did just that. Took away our R 1`s and gave us R 4`s.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Replacing the M14 with M16 during Vietnam. Your thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luker View Post
    The SADF did just that. Took away our R 1`s and gave us R 4`s.
    What was it like?
    Was the reliability good from the start?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Replacing the M14 with M16 during Vietnam. Your thoughts?

    To anyone who wants to understand how the M16 / AR15 got to be where it is today I would suggest getting a copy of Vol 1 of Patrick Sweeney's Book of the AR15. It dispels all the bullshit and gives the factual events of how the M16 got adopted; how boardroom decisions by people who should have known better allowed the wrong propellants to be used (after temporarily re-writing the speck), how those bad decisions and the fact that the US didn't have one single cleaning kit for M16's (in .22 calibre) in the early days caused the guns to malfunction.

    The guns were good from day one. Use the wrong propellant (today; or back in the 60's) and the guns will protest.
    Use good ammo, do basic maintenance (versus instructing soldiers that no cleaning is needed) and the M16 / AR15 will be as reliable as anything that has come before or after.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Replacing the M14 with M16 during Vietnam. Your thoughts?

    The M14 was an obsolete design - it was an M1 Garand modified to take a box magazine and allow select-fire. It's an accurate rifle, but it really does not match up well against an AKM for typical soldiering. The exposed push rod also irks me a bit. Aside from the well-known mistakes, I feel the expedited adoption was a logical decision.

    I have a very good friend who works with trauma patients in far-away lands - typically a 5.56 M193 ball round does a lot more damage than people think. It punches far above its weight. It outclasses the 7.62x39. Put that into a rifle that weighs an insanely light 2.8kg, and everything else makes sense.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Replacing the M14 with M16 during Vietnam. Your thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by SoldierMan View Post
    Ok, help out a newbie here. During the middle of a war, not once it was finished, but in the middle of a war, they decided to change the rifle that the troops were using?
    Why is this? Just a decade and a half before Vietnam many many new weapons were invented and used in world war 2. From guns to artillery to tanks, jets, submarines hell even a new bomb that split atoms.





    Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Replacing the M14 with M16 during Vietnam. Your thoughts?

    Lots of people hit with 556 rounds need trauma doctors, ones that are hit with 7.62x51 rarely need one.

    Wounded can still kill you.

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