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  1. #1

    Default Firearms stolen from or lost by licensed owners

    Hey guys, I need some help again. Anyone got figures for firearms stolen from or lost by licensed owners. I'm trying to cobble together a rebuttal.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Firearms stolen from or lost by licensed owners

    Other than from SAPS I'm not sure where one could get this. Would a promotion of access to information request be the solution?

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    Default Re: Firearms stolen from or lost by licensed owners

    How do you separate state owned weapons from municipalities, sanparks,etc that get lumped into "civilian" losses?

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    Default Re: Firearms stolen from or lost by licensed owners

    I think what is really revelant is the number of firearm owners prosecuted and declared incompetent for negligent loss of firearms. Firearms lost due to theft and robbery where the owners were not negligent should not be used as justification for gun control legislation.

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    Default Re: Firearms stolen from or lost by licensed owners

    Quote Originally Posted by FFourie View Post
    I think what is really revelant is the number of firearm owners prosecuted and declared incompetent for negligent loss of firearms. Firearms lost due to theft and robbery where the owners were not negligent should not be used as justification for gun control legislation.
    Totally agree with you

  6. #6

    Default Re: Firearms stolen from or lost by licensed owners

    There are some figures in the latest SAPS annual report here: https://www.saps.gov.za/about/stratf..._2019-2020.pdf

    The figures are scattered around but there is a summary in the first three paragraphs of page 135. They don't split out the number of private firearms though, only SAPS and non-SAPS.

    The Wits report has a detailed study of lost and stolen firearms from 2000/2001 to 2013/2014 on page 141 broken down by type of owner: http://www.policesecretariat.gov.za/...rms_Report.pdf

    The Wits report shows that something like 96% of individually owned firearms were reported as stolen rather than lost.

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    Default Re: Firearms stolen from or lost by licensed owners

    Then there's also the issue of recovery rates of stolen firearms from civilians vs those of the state.

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    Default Re: Firearms stolen from or lost by licensed owners

    but Bheki Cele says that crime stats are propaganda.

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    Default Re: Firearms stolen from or lost by licensed owners

    Quote Originally Posted by geoffy View Post
    The Wits report has a detailed study of lost and stolen firearms from 2000/2001 to 2013/2014 on page 141 broken down by type of owner: http://www.policesecretariat.gov.za/...rms_Report.pdf

    The Wits report shows that something like 96% of individually owned firearms were reported as stolen rather than lost.
    Forgot about the Wits report. When it landed I raced trough it chuckling like a halfwit. There wasn't much in it that didn't rubbish Cele and co's BS stories.

    The 'losing' a firearm thing has always fascinated me. Some of the stories behind the losses would make for interesting reading.

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    Default Re: Firearms stolen from or lost by licensed owners

    Quote Originally Posted by oafpatroll View Post
    Forgot about the Wits report. When it landed I raced trough it chuckling like a halfwit. There wasn't much in it that didn't rubbish Cele and co's BS stories.

    The 'losing' a firearm thing has always fascinated me. Some of the stories behind the losses would make for interesting reading.
    Like the possible future ones like where I repeatedly went for a run on that bridge over the Vaal and my guns just kept on popping out and falling into the river.
    Or are you referring to the police station getting robbed ones where nobody gets shot or injured and the weapons just disappear?

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